Justin Riley is a 40-year-old dance teacher, wilderness junkie, and organizer of alternative-culture partner dance events. (justindance.com)
Justin has spent nearly two decades designing events that blur the line between art, dance, and wilderness immersion. His festivals are more than just places to dance—they’re cultural experiments that challenge people to step outside their comfort zones and co-create something meaningful. Whether it’s a week-long floating dance party on Utah’s Green River or a countryside retreat in Spain, Justin’s spaces are deliberately messy and wildly participatory. (He’s also responsible for helping me fall in love with fusion dance in 2016.)
We discuss Justin’s early years as a dirtbag wanderer living on $5,000 a year while chasing dreams as a photojournalist and political activist and the joy he finds in solving life’s problems without money. Today he earns money through a combination of event organizing, dance teaching, and converting buses and vans. When work feels so much like play, Justin observes, “I feel like my whole life is filled with free time.”
Justin explains his high risk, low consequence design philosophy, his commitment to wilderness exploration (a vital counterbalance to his hyper-social work), and his belief that meaningful experiences don’t come from perfection but from trust, collaboration, mutual joy, and the willingness to let things break—and then building something new together.
Find Justin’s next events at unboundfusion.com.
Full transcript: dirtbagrich.com/justin
Recorded in November 2024.
AI Notes
This is an AI-generated summary and transcript. Typos and mistakes exist!
Summary
In this podcast episode, Blake interviews Justin Riley, an organizer of alternative culture partner dancing events in wilderness spaces. Justin describes his unconventional career path, which includes teaching partner dancing, organizing dance events, and doing van and bus conversions. He has organized nearly 200 events over the years, with a focus on creating immersive experiences that require active participation from attendees. Justin’s events often take place in unique outdoor settings, such as floating down rivers or in mountain properties. He emphasizes the importance of creating a deliberately messy space that allows everyone to fit in and contribute. Justin also discusses his background in social justice movements and his experiences living on very little money in his early 20s. The conversation touches on the balance between time and money in Justin’s life, as well as his passion for wilderness adventures. Justin shares some of his most memorable wilderness experiences, including challenging ski mountaineering trips. The interview concludes with a discussion of the meaning Justin finds in his work and his connection to nature.
Chapters
Justin Riley’s Unconventional Career Path
Justin Riley has carved out a unique career organizing partner dancing events in wilderness settings, converting vans and buses, and teaching blues and fusion partner dance. He has never had a conventional job, instead pursuing a lifestyle that combines his passions for dance, wilderness, and community-building. His events are designed to be participatory experiences that require everyone’s involvement to succeed.
The Evolution of Justin’s Dance Events
Justin’s dance events have evolved from underground house parties to large-scale, immersive experiences in wilderness settings. These events are characterized by their artistic vision, participatory nature, and the creation of a cultural space that encourages connection and celebration. Justin emphasizes the importance of creating a ‘messy’ space that allows for spontaneity and inclusivity, contrasting with more rigid, commercialized events.
Balancing Risk and Reward in Event Planning
Justin’s approach to event planning involves a delicate balance of risk and reward. He intentionally creates situations that require problem-solving and adaptation, believing that this leads to more meaningful experiences. His events often push participants out of their comfort zones, but with careful consideration of safety and consequences. This philosophy extends to his personal wilderness adventures, where he seeks out challenging situations that require resourcefulness and teamwork.
The Importance of Wilderness in Justin’s Life
Wilderness plays a crucial role in Justin’s life, serving as a counterbalance to his social and community-oriented work. He regularly embarks on challenging outdoor adventures, including ski mountaineering and river trips. These experiences not only provide personal fulfillment but also inform his approach to event planning and community building. Justin views his time in nature as essential for self-reflection and maintaining balance in his life.
Finding Meaning and Purpose
Justin’s sense of purpose comes from creating spaces and experiences that foster connection, celebration, and personal growth. He sees his work as important in providing opportunities for people to come together in meaningful ways, often in natural settings. While he acknowledges the positive impact his events have on others, he emphasizes that he primarily does this work for his own fulfillment and desire to create the kind of community he wants to be part of. Justin also finds deep meaning in his connection to nature and in navigating life’s challenges, including personal relationships and self-discovery.
Transcript
Blake Boles 00:00
Justin Riley, welcome to Dirtbag Rich.
Justin Riley 00:02
Thanks, Blake, thanks for having me.
Blake Boles 00:06
When someone asks you, what do you do, how do you respond to them?
Justin Riley 00:12
Oh my goodness, that’s probably one of the more complicated questions that I’ve asked. Currently, I throw kind of alternative culture, partner dancing events in wilderness or wild spaces, and I also do some van and bus conversions, mobile solar stuff on the side, and I spent a good 15 years teaching partner dancing, specifically blues and fusion partner dance throughout Europe and the States. And I spend a lot of my free time, if not all of it, with my friends in wilderness.
Blake Boles 00:56
Okay, good. Uh, we’re going to talk more about the wilderness a bit later, but first for someone who has no idea what a partner dance event or weekend looks like, let alone some of the more extreme like wilderness retreats that you’ve organized, maybe just walk people through a basic long weekend partner dance event that you have created in the past.
Blake Boles 01:20
Cause you’ve done more than a hundred of these, right?
Justin Riley 01:24
Yeah, I’ve done nearly 200. Oh my gosh. I know, it used to be 12 a year. Now I’m back down to six, which feels a little more manageable. I guess each one is its own kind of creative expression of like how to get a group of fun-loving dancers to do something ambitious together.
Justin Riley 01:49
Like each one has its own design. Like I throw a five day floating dance party down the Green River in Utah, where there’s like a whole bunch of us getting together and we’re loading boats, unloading, throwing parties on the sandbars and like this idea of ambition for the group with a design that requires everyone to participate and show up.
Justin Riley 02:14
And even my week-long events that are just out of rented property up in the mountains kind of have the same like an artistic vision where we might change dance venues multiple times within a night. And it kind of requires that everyone that shows up participates.
Justin Riley 02:32
People work, volunteer shifts, every single person works at least one shift. Most people find that it’s the most fun part of the entire weekend and work two or three. And just this like general feeling of like we’re creating this space in this event rather than just in the organizers.
Justin Riley 02:49
And then we dance until sunrise, sometimes multiple nights in a row, workshops during the day, sometimes like more adventure activities like climbing and canyoneering if it’s in one of my wild wilderness spaces.
Justin Riley 03:06
And yeah, but I think really what brings them all together is an artistic vision that requires everybody to make it happen or it falls apart. And that way everyone shows up and feels a part of it. No one’s left out.
Blake Boles 03:20
The first time I went to one of your events was in 2016 in California, and the artistic vision part stood out to me immediately because there was all of these outdoor, these little tiny outdoor dance venues that the group had created with extremely picturesque lighting.
Blake Boles 03:40
So like the trees were lit up with different colors late at night, the DJ booths were very artistically done, and you seem to have a special knack for finding like cool old furniture. You know what I mean?
Blake Boles 03:53
Like plush chairs and like cool lighting fixtures and like you do like string lights and just lighting in general very well. What was your influence for, for even beginning to conceive of creating events like this Justin?
Justin Riley 04:12
I mean, I think the aesthetic specifically is Victorian trash that you’re looking for. Thank you. You know, I was a dancer ever since I was in high school. I found it in the late 90s, growing up in Lawrence, Kansas, and in the kind of swing and Lindy Hop big band kind of resurgence of swing dancing.
Justin Riley 04:34
And it was before the styles of dance that I’m currently involved in existed on this scale. And it just kind of, these dances came out of an underground house party scene of Lindy Hoppers that after the big ballrooms closed down, they would go out and dance at house parties like normal people.
Justin Riley 04:57
And I never, I always felt a little outside of the community at large. I always loved dancing, but I grew up from a pretty progressive Jewish family in Kansas, and the dance community was pretty socially conservative.
Justin Riley 05:19
And I always resonated with the dance and the movement and less with the culture and community. And I really, my inspiration to first start my events, which my first festival was in 2006, was that I was more of an outside kid, wilderness, junky, a little bit more of a dirt bag.
Justin Riley 05:43
At the time, I was camping on a friend’s property up on Mount Sopris outside of Carbondale, Colorado, working for a CSA and growing food and just spending time in the wilderness and then dancing. And I was like, I want to create a space where my wilderness friends would really enjoy it and would get into dance and where my dancing friends would be in the space and aesthetic that I was more akin to.
Justin Riley 06:12
And it was a weekend of hot springing, dancing under the stars, busking, dancing while we were like busking for money in Aspen up on the pedestrian mall in Aspen, Colorado, and buying pizza with the money we made and just like doing this type of lifestyle that was more akin to what I was used to, but with my dance community.
Justin Riley 06:33
And it was really just wanting to bring, create a space that I felt like I fit in and that was mine in wall dancing. And then that was turned into one event, two events, and then it became a full-time gig.
Blake Boles 06:53
Have you ever had a normal job?
Justin Riley 06:55
I am. I have never had a normal job. I was thinking about this actually not too long ago. When I was in high school, I painted apartments for like two weeks over the summer. I think that was that’s maybe the only boss I’ve ever had in my entire life, which I’m 40 now.
Justin Riley 07:15
So that’s a good track record. Yeah, you know, who knows? There’s always time to do something different, I guess.
Blake Boles 07:25
The way you paint your early existence, it sounds a bit like a crust-punk kind of existence to me, like a traveler really living on very little money, coming together to find community and to create magical experiences, but really living on the edge of financial insecurity.
Blake Boles 07:48
Does that accurately portray your maybe early 20s?
Justin Riley 07:53
Yeah, I mean, I think if you ask Justin at 21, he would not think that he was without resources. But I definitely was in retrospect. I spent, you know, after college, I went to a small liberal art school in Iowa, Grinnell College.
Justin Riley 08:08
And I just took a one way ticket to keep the Ecuador with $3,000 of savings. And honestly, somehow made that last an entire year down there. And a lot of it was what I used to call urban camping, which was really just being homeless on the street and cities.
Justin Riley 08:28
And it’s funny when I look back, I’m like, well, I was just a kid doing like hitchhiking everywhere. Just like really the things I would do for fun was just get a bottle of wine and go sit on the street and talk to street artisans, as opposed to going to bars.
Justin Riley 08:44
And actually, from the age of 21 till probably 25 or 26, I was living off of $4,000 to $6,000 a year. And during those years, I would go back to Colorado, I’d work the summer season, the summer growing season, growing food, and gardening for three months.
Justin Riley 09:05
Honestly, the best thing about gardening in a mountain community all above 8,000 feet is that the growing season’s 100 days. And then when that was over, I’d take off and travel, go to Latin America, go backpacking, and also down south in Central America, I’d always get linked up with social justice movements.
Justin Riley 09:32
And I was really trying to build myself as a photographer and a journalist, but also as a street activist and always got linked up with communities that had a lot to offer me and showed up for them and just got plugged into ways of living a very exuberant life without needing a whole lot of financial resources.
Blake Boles 09:57
So you made money from doing agriculture and did the journalism or the photography pay any money? Like how did you make this $4,000 to $6,000? Was it really just the summer, like work intensively for a few months and then live off that for the rest of the year?
Justin Riley 10:14
Um, I, it would depend on the year I, you know, in my early twenties, it’s funny to reflect on this cause it feels so long ago. Like I really wanted to be a journalist, um, and specifically a photo journalist and I would, um, you know, I had a photo blog, I eventually got a new, uh, job at the origin times and Buenos Aires and would just be, I would follow around these current events that were happening.
Justin Riley 10:41
Like I was in Cuba for Castro’s resignation. I went and got connected with the elections and was an international election observer and organizer, uh, in 2007 for the elections of Mauricio Funes and El Salvador.
Justin Riley 10:55
And every winter I would have a project that would go on like kind of cover as a journalist and then write pieces for like NACLA, like North American Congress for Latin America or upside down world. These were like the days of like the magazines and the like, uh, online blogs and all my magazine time.
Justin Riley 11:14
And I would make some money, but then I would also go and shoot a wedding for like a friend of mine and make more money in a weekend than I had had in like three months of covering this, uh, this, uh, project for a newspaper or for an article and then I would come and probably make two thirds my income over the summer, uh, in Colorado.
Justin Riley 11:37
So really just piecing it together. But I would say like the thing that was most important in that wasn’t that, and this was even going further, uh, from my twenties is not just I was able to make, um, like decent money in a short amount of time, but that I was like able and willing to live off of like nothing for an extended amount of time and yeah.
Blake Boles 12:01
different from other people in that regard because there’s lots of people who are able to bum around for a while in their 20s but it starts to feel uncomfortable or their friends start to make more money and so they kind of feel like they don’t belong anymore they can’t participate in in social activities and so what was the secret to you being able to do this for so long?
Justin Riley 12:24
Um, well, I think the, I still, like, while I make quite a bit more money than I did in my early twenties, um, and I still don’t think I need a lot to, uh, uh, to have a really rich, beautiful life. Like my activities are like ski mountaineering and climbing and backpacking.
Justin Riley 12:43
They’re all things that, uh, don’t really require a lot of inputs, um, except for maybe the gear that I bought, uh, previously to do them. And in my twenties, it was more like running and backpacking.
Justin Riley 12:56
So it was even cheaper than the activities I’m into now. And, you know, in large part, just, you know, maybe it’s my tastes to where like, I don’t get a whole lot going out to a five star Michelin restaurant.
Justin Riley 13:10
Um, I’d rather go on a walk with a friend, um, than something that then go shopping and just liking things that are used and salvaged and fixing things myself, like building the relationship with things that isn’t just money.
Justin Riley 13:28
I think a lot of, um, when I look at like what life has to offer, it’s like, it’s all relational and whether that’s our friend relationships, relationship to place, but also relationship to things. People are like, how do you learn all of these things with car mechanics?
Justin Riley 13:44
I’m like, well, I had things broken down. I had old cars for decades and when something breaks, got to figure it out. And you know, what happens when your car breaks down and you have to figure it out and you have like a deeper relationship to your vehicle, to the day, to the person that picks you up on the side of the road and takes you to the nearest gas station for a phone call.
Justin Riley 14:06
I mean, like builds this richness of relationship other than just a, now I sit and I call AAA and they come and get me. And my relationship is with the tow truck driver, but it’s, you know, and it’s relationship to that.
Justin Riley 14:18
I purchased this insurance and that I will pay someone to do it. And in a way it’s way less, less rich when the relationship is financial and transactional rather than I got to figure it out with all the things available.
Blake Boles 14:33
So you derive a sense of purpose or even adventure from figuring out stuff that other people will pay to solve.
Justin Riley 14:40
Yeah. And I think in my earlier days, I had more time and less money. And so the things of course, I spent my time to figure it out because I didn’t have money. And now I like, there’s a lot of things that I would have done on my vehicle.
Justin Riley 14:54
Just use that same example for repairs that I definitely pay someone to do because I’m too busy or I’d rather be doing something else. But, but yeah, and that’s just the, yeah, just the shifting, like just being self-aware that with the resources to pay for things like mechanics, like I am losing that relationship to my vehicles, but hopefully I’m putting that somewhere else.
Blake Boles 15:21
So at what point did you become incredibly financially wealthy? Thanks to, thanks to these, these massive dance events that you kept producing, when did your finances start to tip in the upward direction from, from your true dirtbag status in your early to mid twenties.
Justin Riley 15:40
That’s hilarious. You know, it’s probably been about 10 years that I haven’t been like, that I’ve been the one that like, oh, yeah, like I can, like, I’d be the one that, the star, yeah, that I have the resources, like, be more generous in larger ways, like, offer friends loans and things like that.
Justin Riley 16:02
And I think it really was just that, like, I still was able to live off a very little. And, you know, as you gain more time and experience, people pay you more for your labor and the things that you do that have value in the world, and you just start to make more money and never really quite needed that much more.
Justin Riley 16:23
And also, I think, just being wise with my savings, I think that there’s something that a lot of people who don’t come from wealth, like myself, or that are living alternative lifestyles, there’s like a rejection of things like investing, or debt and credit card debt.
Justin Riley 16:49
And, you know, having like a financial wisdom with very little is something like really important. I feel like I got that from my mom. You know, they were both public school teachers in rural Kansas, where I was growing up as a kid.
Justin Riley 17:02
And we did so much on so little, like, all summer, we just live off of a zero percent credit card that my mom would open so we could travel all summer together as a family, you know, camping everywhere we went, maybe a hotel every two weeks for a shower.
Justin Riley 17:17
And, you know, just really valuing experiences over things was like my mom’s mantra. And just doing a lot like I didn’t I did so much more as a family growing up than most all of my other friends, even though I was the poor kid.
Justin Riley 17:38
And yeah, I feel like I really learned that Oh, like you can do a lot off of nothing as long as you make the right priorities and decisions.
Blake Boles 17:45
Hmm. So I think I can guess based upon what you said about both your parents being public school teachers, but your life of travel and adventure has not been enabled by generational wealth or some sort of trust fund or an expected inheritance, right?
Justin Riley 18:01
Not that is that is yeah, you’re absolutely correct in that
Blake Boles 18:07
So I want to come back to dance here because you were talking about the activities that you enjoy that are relational, that don’t cost much money. And I think that partner dance is a wonderful example of this.
Blake Boles 18:21
Although if you’re in the U S or you’re in Europe and you look at these, uh, events, events like you have organized or your friends have organized events that I like to go to, um, it doesn’t seem like something that’s super cheap.
Blake Boles 18:35
You look at a weekend event and it costs a couple hundred dollars, maybe more. And then you need to pay for housing. Also you need to travel to get there. And so I think it would be very easy for someone from the outside to look and say, people who do this, these dance weekends, it’s a rich people thing because you need to have five or $600 in order to go take this weekend long vacation.
Blake Boles 18:58
And you do this all the time. So how do you respond to that? And what for you makes dance feel like this accessible form of, of relational connecting.
Justin Riley 19:12
Yeah, I mean, that’s a great question. And as the specific type of partner dance that I’m a part of with Blues & Fusion has changed, I think that it started as an underground house party scene, where there was no entrance.
Justin Riley 19:29
There wasn’t even a name to it. People just called it the house party scene. And like I mentioned, we were all Lindy Hoppers just throwing after-hours parties in our houses. And it was really that it was a lot of people that couldn’t afford even like the $8, $10 to go dance at the ballroom would just go to the house parties.
Justin Riley 19:53
And now it’s quite different. I feel like, you know, while there is a movement still of people throwing house parties, you know, it costs money to go to these events, there’s venues all around the world and all around the country that, you know, that costs money.
Justin Riley 20:10
And, you know, you got to pay the venue, pay the organizer, pay the DJs, live acts, bands. But it is a thing that really I feel like with partner dancing or dancing in general, like it’s just an important cultural piece for us as humans, that if you go to Latin America, like everyone grows up dancing, whether it’s cumbia or bachata, salsa, like everyone grows up dancing with their family and brothers and sisters in the house.
Justin Riley 20:37
And you don’t have to pay to go take a dance class. And it’s not a thing that you do with hobbies, where I feel like here growing up, I was like a Euro-American. There’s, when I was growing up, and I wanted music my life, my parents got me piano lessons, I went to band in school, or when I want to dance, I’d go pay for a dance class, where I feel like most of the world, like when there’s not resources,
Justin Riley 21:07
financial resources, like everyone still has music and dance and food, but they they cook and they dance with their friends at home and they play music because their relationship isn’t through the purchasing of it.
Justin Riley 21:19
It’s through the doing of it. And it’s this really rich thing that I feel like as a Euro-American coming, not from riches, but from resources to pay for dance classes as a kid, that our idea of culture is more consumptive and hobbies instead of just what we do with ourselves while we’re in community.
Justin Riley 21:44
So as a centerpiece of my events, I really do try to bring it back to that, like this is how we are in community, this is how we direction of how we are together. And that includes the good lighting, it includes the way we are together, that we sit and eat every meal together, that we build the spaces together, and the spaces that I create really do strive to be different than the other ones in the dance community because,
Justin Riley 22:14
I mean, I like to go and just pay a ticket and be like, great, I’m going to have fun evening of dancing. But there’s something really special to go and be needed in the space to help out. And then I get to feel a part of it.
Justin Riley 22:26
And like, it’s mine since I put my labor and attention to it and not just showed up. So…
Blake Boles 22:35
Your events are residential also. People are staying at the same place where they’re dancing. And often they’re staying in some sort of almost summer camp-like communal environment, dormitories, sharing beds, sleeping in weird makeshift configurations.
Blake Boles 22:52
And I think that definitely adds to the magic and the value of the experience. It’s quite different when you kind of leave the social dance and then you go out and you’re back in the city and you kind of walk back to your Airbnb or your friend’s place maybe.
Blake Boles 23:10
And there’s this disconnection. Does the residential aspect, has that always been key to your events?
Justin Riley 23:18
100% I am unwilling to throw one that’s not a residential event because of that exact same effect that you mentioned where people don’t have investment in the space or the people or what’s going on in the same way when they leave and it kind of breaks the container every time people go home or go out to eat in a different restaurant where as opposed everyone shows up for dinner time and sits and eats together and then there’s announcements about what’s going on and there’s like this kind of like everyone sees each other there’s this like general feeling of yes to the group and what’s happening is really powerful and like as adults we rarely get it like as kids with summer camp like you mentioned like there’s this feeling of like wow we’re like all here part of something together and it’s pretty rare as adults to have that but yeah residential events is like a cornerstone of the pedagogy and design of my events
Blake Boles 24:13
Okay. We’ve talked about the residential aspect, the outdoor aspect, the Victorian junk aspect and the participative everyone volunteers. We co-create this part, but I still feel like there’s something else, which is in the magic.
Blake Boles 24:30
There’s something you’re putting into the water, Justin. And can you put your finger on this? Like when you compare yourself to other people who are throwing cool events, cool retreats, and you’re thinking like, ah, but they don’t have that Justin Riley magic.
Blake Boles 24:46
What is it? I want you to toot your horn a little bit.
Justin Riley 24:51
I mean, I think the biggest thing is like, I’m not in the service industry, you know, I’m an artist, when I do my work, like when people come up like, Oh, like, I’d really like this. And I’m like, I didn’t ask your opinion about my art.
Justin Riley 25:04
It’s like, often my response. It’s like, I invited you into my space. And I wanted you to be a part of it. And, you know, I think a lot of organizers are like, they’re trying to make everyone happy. They’re trying to provide a service, which is super important, where I’m trying to create, like an experience, right?
Justin Riley 25:24
That isn’t necessarily easy. That’s like trying to hit certain edges. And I’m, and I myself, I’m like a very sensitive person, like I kind of feel everything in the space. And if like the lighting’s not good, like I feel it, and I change it.
Justin Riley 25:37
And I’m making the party in the event for myself. So, you know, I’m not just changing the lighting because I want the lighting to be good, but because it’s good. It’s like, I need it to like really drop into the space.
Justin Riley 25:50
Or if the music’s off from like, I select every DJ, like the lighting design, like it’s a it’s a fully, it’s a fully controlled container, I guess I like to say, where whatever is going to happen is free to happen inside of it.
Justin Riley 26:08
But the container holding that I like to do is like a really specific one. And it’s cultural as well. Like I keep mentioning the meals together, and that’s announcement time, and it really sets the culture of how we are together.
Justin Riley 26:23
And for a lot of years, like for the first few years of building these events, you know, it took a lot of work to build the cultural quorum of the space, or just the norms of it. But, you know, for the last decade, like the people that come to my events have been to a lot of them, they know how we are together in them and how the culture is held and everyone holds the cultural space, I feel like,
Justin Riley 26:47
in the most part, I don’t even have to be there. And, and the space is held because there’s a cultural quorum, which is, you know, we’re always held by a cultural quorum, whether we’re in a church space in a park, you know, it’s like we know these silent ways of being and we all enforce them.
Justin Riley 27:08
And the same things happen in the spaces. And so I kind of feel myself right in the service industry as more like a cultural architect and a space and experience architect and artist. And, you know, you won’t see any like surveys about how you felt about the event or what you would like to change my spaces and and often when people write and ask me, you know, I would say, like, more times than not,
Justin Riley 27:39
when someone tells me they would like something change about the space. I usually think, oh my gosh, do you know what a great event is for that? And I offer up other great events in the community that I think are, you know, a better fit than the one that they are, than they’re at.
Justin Riley 27:56
Oh, man.
Blake Boles 27:57
So I’m hearing you talk a lot about collaboration and co-creation and also you use the word control and you said this is my project, I’m not really asking for feedback and so you must get some pushback, you must get some criticism for doing things so specifically the way you want them done.
Blake Boles 28:18
So what do your critics say and maybe they just don’t show up, that’s the way they protest but when you do have people who are a bit critical of how you run your events, what do they typically say?
Justin Riley 28:36
You know, there are, there’s, of course, a number of critiques about my spaces, and, you know, there’s ones that are material, like the dance floor wasn’t a perfect hardwood dance floor. There’s ones about, you know, there aren’t as many showers as they would like at the event space.
Justin Riley 28:56
And I, and I think I received more early on when I was trying to make the events. Or I was trying to convince people to come to the events. Currently, like, if you go to my website and read about it, every event is very specific that this event is not for everyone, and it’s not designed for everyone.
Justin Riley 29:20
And if you didn’t, if you don’t see these events and hear about them and think, thank God, this is exactly what I’ve been wanting, you probably shouldn’t be here. And I think the anti-promotion has both made it to where the right people show up and more people show up.
Justin Riley 29:37
And I actually hear very, like the last probably four years since I’ve really changed how I’ve been trying to promote and get people at the event, it’s more of an anti-promotion of like, if this isn’t exactly what you’ve been wanting, it’s not for you.
Justin Riley 29:54
And, you know, and I really, I hear very few critiques now because the people show up that really want the thing. And what I really do like is when someone lets me know how they’re affected. So if someone’s like, you know, today was really long and I didn’t feel like it was like the dinner crew had enough energy or enough help to make dinner happen and we felt burned out like that, I absolutely want to know.
Justin Riley 30:21
Like I, that’s the feedback that, oh my goodness, we need to change everything and respond a lot too. Which is different than the music, the lighting, like the flow of the event and programming like that.
Justin Riley 30:34
But yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of critiques that I honestly feel like they are the same type of critiques that you would hear suburban, more socially conservative, risk-adverse America make about probably any of the people that you’re interviewing on this podcast series.
Justin Riley 30:56
They’re the critiques of people that want things to feel safer and be less ambitious, that want things to be more known, more controlled, and less like chaos art of like how we figure things out together when the unknown happens.
Justin Riley 31:20
There’s a, you know, one of my favorite kind of pedagogical uses in my spaces is like high risk, low consequence. If this is like a ski mountaineering and like wilderness speak that I use a lot in my productions where like, if there’s no risk involved, nothing interesting will happen.
Justin Riley 31:43
And like risk and things not going as planned is what makes something interesting and alive and real. Like there’s a rawness of like what it necessitates out of everyone to adapt and figure out how it’s going to work.
Justin Riley 31:59
And so the higher the risk, the better for my spaces. And I’ll intentionally create it to where it’s, there’s more risk and more difficulty than it needed to be. But the consequence for me needs to be low.
Justin Riley 32:13
So like the floating dance festival I refer to that I throw every year, like, there’s so much like, like the risk is it’s a wild space, you know, like, sometimes 50 boats tied together going down the river, and when it comes up we’re getting blown into the shore and the risk is super high, but the consequences that people get wet, you know, maybe we like put a hole in a boat.
Justin Riley 32:37
It’s a low risk because it’s flat water, where, you know, in like my ski mountaineering like we might look at a ski line that has, it might be a very low risk of an avalanche slide, but the consequence is like ultimate consequences of death, and I would never touch that.
Justin Riley 32:55
So, you know,
Blake Boles 32:57
I do recall being on the Green River dance trip in 2019 and a number of people had brought essentially pool toys they had purchased off Amazon two days prior and many of these floating craft did not make it past day two and so we ended up in a sort of like refugee boat situation where people were clambering onto other people’s boats and I think there was a cake of beer also on the first day that was attached to the the dome floating down that somehow got detached it was now sitting at the bottom of the Green River so there was all sorts of like small disasters but overall like it worked somehow it worked the water was purified each day so we had drinkable water and water to clean the dishes stuff was loaded and unloaded and even though people were tired dance parties happened every evening and like no one was left behind there was no major first aid incidents but it did feel to me as another as a fellow wilderness person Justin it it felt to me like you were pulling it off just on like the edge just on the edge of like everything being okay and that that theoretically something could have happened that tipped it over into the realm of not being okay but at every event I’ve been to that you’ve produced that has not yet happened how do you know where that edge is how do you feel that I feel like that’s part of the mmm the je ne sais quoi here
Justin Riley 34:43
Yeah, I think a lot of it is just risk assessment. I think that my wilderness endeavors are not separate from how I make decisions. And to say also, that first year on the river trip you were on was probably the most chaotic event I’ve ever thrown of the 180.
Justin Riley 35:03
I don’t know if you remember, we were in a flood state and I was going to cancel it, but the people at the BLM river office assured me it would be fine. And I feel like it was fine outside of that we were trying to float a geodesic dome down the river.
Justin Riley 35:18
I think that was the only part that was less fine. That part we probably should have nixed, you know, which we did on day two, but you should have nixed from the beginning. But you know, there is a, I mean, I don’t know if, you know, just from this last river trip, like there’s all sorts of things that make something dangerous or something risky.
Justin Riley 35:46
And like there’s like on the river, I think that’s a great example of that event specifically. There’s all these things that have a lot of risk. Like we might like risk food spoiling the coolers. We might risk that like a strong crosswind comes in and like pushes us into like a rocky shore.
Justin Riley 36:05
But the danger is if people don’t have their life jackets within arms reach, right? Where like as a river guide, there’s as a white water rafting guide, like the fact that you have life jackets makes like very dangerous water, just a lot of fun to go down.
Justin Riley 36:22
And you know, there’s this also this thing, if you remember on that trip, while it was really hard, like people came together to support each other because it was necessary. And that’s probably of all of the events that I’ve thrown.
Justin Riley 36:35
That is the event specifically that had probably the most need to come together in a like difficult situation because the water was flowing at about four times what it would otherwise. It was at a hundred year flood state.
Justin Riley 36:50
And it was still flat and just a little faster. And the river was really different. And also, I don’t know if you remember, when I saw that, I got to I reserve two other gear boats as our insurance policy boats, because I knew that like the highest risk was that people were going to pop their boats, because instead of sandy beaches on the shore, it was the tops of trees.
Justin Riley 37:15
And as people were bringing all sorts of crafts, like some from Walmart, I was like, we need to have some backups. And oh my goodness, I’m so glad we did like the highest risk was that people’s boats popped.
Justin Riley 37:28
And they got put on the refugee boats, which happened to like almost the entire event. And you know, the consequence of like someone getting hurt, other than the dome, which was quite complicated to get that stopped and brought down, I feel like, you know, people like we could have been in the water in our life jackets the entire time for all 56 miles.
Justin Riley 37:52
And it would have been a fun float. You know, but everyone’s like, Oh my gosh, like I almost flew in like, Oh my gosh, we’re sinking like there’s this like, and then everyone’s like helping each other coming together like there’s this idea of emergency.
Justin Riley 38:04
We’re really like we were also in the water swimming during the day, like in the water. And I kind of love this, like the high risk, low consequences, just a sweet spot, like really brings people together.
Justin Riley 38:17
It brings creativity and aliveness in the space. It makes it to where like, I can try and plan everything of like what type of like charisma comes out of a time together with people. And I can’t ever anticipate it because everyone’s creativity is needed.
Justin Riley 38:32
And I’m always impressed. It’s always fun. It’s always interesting. And it even helps my like need for novelty and running the same event year after year.
Blake Boles 38:42
It’s very real. And, and I think just putting people into a situation where they have to come together, hopefully not to like survive, survive, but in order, you know, they realize that either they are going to participate in creating this experience, or it’s going to be a bad experience.
Blake Boles 38:59
These kinds of situations are fewer and fewer. There’s a much more commercial and transactional relationship that’s expected, which is I give you money, you provide amazing experience. And don’t ask me to actually do anything that could be uncomfortable for more than a microsecond.
Blake Boles 39:17
And so the fact that you continue organizing, I mean, of course, like you said, that was an exceptional event. But you continue organizing these events where you just expect that people show up and get off their butts and actually do something and solve problems on their own might be the secret sauce, Justin.
Justin Riley 39:36
People do say that my superpowers I trust people and and I think I really do trust people like I put people in charge. I trust them to do it. I trust them to figure it out and I trust people to like ask for support if they need help.
Justin Riley 39:51
And I think having a container of this is your project if you need anything ask and then it works and then also having like a lot of people that I trust have been to a lot of events are on my crew so that I’m not the only one they’re asking like.
Justin Riley 40:06
And then after so many events like there’s almost 20 years of culture in my events and there’s such a capacity that’s been built and like a lot of my politics are also around capacity building where like how did I learn to do the things that I do?
Justin Riley 40:23
I just did it and people trusted me to figure out how to use power tools for the first time and you know we gotta trust each other so people can learn and it opens up the capacity of the group and then all of a sudden the group has a huge capacity going forward and we don’t need to like pay for expensive school.
Justin Riley 40:41
I think like the unschooling that you do as well probably hinges a lot on those same values of like trust people to figure it out support them when needed but otherwise like if you don’t trust them they’ll never figure it out and learn and they’ll never have the confidence to take it forward.
Blake Boles 40:57
Yeah, 100%. I’m glad you brought it there. Uh, let’s zoom out for a moment here and talk about time, money, and purpose. How do you, let’s just start with the first two. How do you think about balancing time and money in your life?
Blake Boles 41:11
And perhaps tell me how much free time do you actually enjoy on a day to day, week to week, month to month basis?
Justin Riley 41:20
Oh my goodness, um, it really depends. I feel like I’m a full speed ahead and then a stop full stop. So I just like the last six months I’ll go on production tour for five weeks. I’ve got my crew. We’re on our tour vehicle.
Justin Riley 41:38
We are just like full on. Um, and then afterwards I’ll have a month off and I was like, go to the wilderness, go to the mountains, go climb, go hike. Uh, go spend time on the river. Um, you know, I don’t, it’s hard to really, I know that we had talked about this earlier before we hit the record button about free time and I don’t, when you asked me about that, I’m like, wow, I don’t actually see myself as giving my time to things that I make that’s like is work,
Justin Riley 42:13
like I don’t, all of the projects that I do, I would do for free and, and many of them pay for me to live my life, um, and also be generous on top of that. So, um, yeah, like these events, like some of the events cost money.
Justin Riley 42:31
Some of them do really well, and I have to go into them knowing that I would do it, even if it was something that I was paying for out of pocket. And I feel like with my dance teaching as well, um, for a decade, like I, uh, often would just say yes to whatever the event made and could, could offer me.
Justin Riley 42:50
And sometimes that was a lot and sometimes it was a little, and you know, just like trusting that like it’s going to work out, um, and also like making all of like the big moves and deliberate decisions so that it does financially work out, but I, uh, yeah, I have a, I feel like my whole life is filled with free time.
Justin Riley 43:11
Um, I, uh, I only run, I work kind of five weekends a year, but then I’m also always just doing things that are probably in the same line of work, like throwing events and parties and teaching dance that, um, I just do as a gift to the, to the community and the people around me.
Justin Riley 43:34
I don’t know if that was sidestepping your question.
Blake Boles 43:36
No, no, no. It’s complicated. It’s complicated when you really enjoy what you’re doing. Like teaching dance is something you clearly enjoy. And so this is where we’re bringing the meaning aspect to it.
Blake Boles 43:49
Let me just throw one big question at you. How do you know that you are doing something important with the work that you’re doing? How do you…
Justin Riley 43:57
you convinced? That’s a great question. Actually, you know, can I say one more thing to your last question before I move on? You know, I think when I reflect on like, what’s the difference between free time and work, maybe would be the other end of that spectrum, even though you didn’t give it a name, is like, whether or not like, we feel like we have ownership of our own labor and time.
Justin Riley 44:21
And you know, this is like, certainly like a Marxist perspective, and very anti capitalist, and worker centered. But like, when we, like our labor is all we have, like, it’s our time, and what we put our time towards.
Justin Riley 44:35
And, you know, it can and what we do with it is like, we cook food for a good friend, just like how we fall in love, it’s how we build houses to like, for our family to house our families, like it’s what we give as our greatest gift.
Justin Riley 44:50
And I think in a late stage capitalist society, when the exchanges for money, when like you cook food, because you work in a restaurant for your boss, where you a contract and you build a house for someone, that’s like a corporation to build an apartment complex, and we’re separate from the value of our labor and our labor is something that’s no longer ours, we’re dissociated and separate from it.
Justin Riley 45:15
And that’s something that I’ve always from the very beginning, like growing up as like an anti capitalist, anarchist, politic punk, like being very self aware of like not selling my labor. It doesn’t mean that I don’t do things for money all the time, but making sure that like, I feel like I have agency in my control of it.
Justin Riley 45:33
Because that’s the thing that makes it the biggest gift is like cooking for our families or a lover, or your job in the back of a restaurant that makes it something that you’re just counting the hours till you’re done, or something that you look forward to when you get home.
Justin Riley 45:47
And like, so that is a big thing, like free time is like whether or not we have agency and control of our labor and work might be that we’re selling our time and labor and it belongs to someone else because they’re paying us.
Justin Riley 45:59
And so that might be why I’m a little have a harder time answering that question, because I don’t feel like I, I feel really fortunate and really loyal to myself and stubborn that like, I don’t really do anything to to sell myself.
Justin Riley 46:18
It’s also alien.
Blake Boles 46:20
from your life.
Justin Riley 46:21
Yeah, like, even to my answer of when people come to me wanting something to shift in the space, if it’s not something I care about, then I say, like, maybe this isn’t the space for you. I don’t work for you.
Justin Riley 46:34
But I invited you into my space and, like, invited you into this. But, you know, of course the values are robust. If they aren’t having a good time and they feel, then I, like, really do care about that.
Blake Boles 46:47
Um, that’s a good clarification, Justin, and now we’ll boomerang it back to you. Do you think you’re having an impact? Do you think you’re doing something meaningful and important in the world? And let’s focus on the dance events and the dance teaching.
Blake Boles 47:00
Um, and if so, how do you know?
Justin Riley 47:04
You know, that’s a good question. I feel like I’m quite the cynic and I do believe that celebration is something that is so important to us and that we lack here in America in a big way. And the Global North, like we’ve lost the capacity to like feel like we’re allowed to celebrate in a lot of ways and that, you know, parties and events are celebratory and they’re important.
Justin Riley 47:35
And though when people come to me about the events, like it, I really do see that I’m like, lives are being completely shifted through them. This event that I just threw on like Powell, it was like a week long party with three houseboats.
Justin Riley 47:55
Like every single person at the closing circle was like, this was the best week of my year to the best week that I’ve ever had in my entire life. And I’m here being like, this was a really special week.
Justin Riley 48:07
And like, what is it? Like, I don’t know the impact. I feel like it’s well beyond me. Like, I’ve had more people and I can count, come and tell me that my spaces and events like saved their life in terms of like, like, I don’t like a very material way.
Justin Riley 48:25
And then like, feeling lost and suicidal and then finding the community and spaces. But I don’t actually get my say, I don’t think I’m the one doing that, like, you know, that’s like, we’re all people are all in this space, kind of crashing into each other in these poetic ways.
Justin Riley 48:43
And with a space that feels messy enough that includes everybody. You know, I often also say that in my spaces, like, they’re deliberately messy, because when they’re messy, we all fit. And if they’re held rigidly, and tightly, then none of us fit even myself.
Justin Riley 49:03
And so I do think and holding a very deliberately messy space, which is kind of like a bar, you go into a bar, it’s a messy space, right? You go to like Latin America, any cultural event in the street is messy.
Justin Riley 49:17
And I think here, we try to have our parties be very crisp and clean. And like, you’re American, buy a ticket to something America. And, you know, I think we lose a lot. So I think in bringing those spaces into the community is important.
Justin Riley 49:34
I mean, I think that my events are very much based on liberation politics around like how we, like, as a baseline, just treat each other better than we would otherwise. And, and also wilderness nature, fun, dance, connection, good food, falling in love, like, it’s all it’s all the mess that makes things valuable.
Justin Riley 50:00
Yeah. So, you know, I think I am having an impact. But I think, on a more selfish level, it’s like, it’s not necessarily why I do it, like, I do it for myself. And I think it’s also why I keep doing it.
Justin Riley 50:13
When I watch organizers in the community that burn out all the time, like, I am the organizer that’s been doing not only the most events, but has been doing it for the longest of anywhere in the world in the global blues and fusion community.
Justin Riley 50:25
And it’s because like, I do it for myself. No, I want a community that feels this way. I want spaces that feel this way. I need the lighting to be good, to have a good time. And I want to be involved in spaces.
Justin Riley 50:37
And I would do it even if I wasn’t getting paid.
Blake Boles 50:41
Yeah, I really sympathize with this, uh, the travel programs for unschooled teenagers that I’ve been running for more than 15 years. Uh, I just go to places that I want to go to. I organized trips to places I’m excited for and that my co-leaders are excited for because that, that is communicated through us, through our body language, through, you know, especially teenagers, just children in general,
Blake Boles 51:06
they can tell if an adult actually wants to be there or not, but I’m sure this goes for dance events too, they can tell if the organizer is, is personally psyched and invested to make this thing happen, or if it feels like it’s some sort of obligation.
Blake Boles 51:20
Um, so yeah, keeping that, that, uh, creator, I don’t know what to call it here, you know, buy-in alive seems so, uh, non-negotiable if you’re going to do this for the long run.
Justin Riley 51:36
100% yeah, I think I can really see how that is in your line of work as well And yeah, the kids like everyone feels the body and like the somaticness of the person that’s being at the center of it And if they’re burned out and having a good time like everyone like we’re so sensitive as Animals like we take on so much more than we give credit for and people will wonder why they’re not having a good time And maybe it’s because the lightens bad or the music the sounds off But like in large part is because whoever is holding the space right at the people that are like culturally centering it like aren’t doing well and And if they’re doing well You could probably be hanging out in a Walmart parking lot with your kids I’m schooling and if you’re having a good time because of whatever reasons so are they
Blake Boles 52:24
Yeah, it’s very true. Um, I want to talk about the other source of meaning in your life. Uh, the one that I’m aware of, which is wilderness and nature and doing cool stuff in the outdoors. And we’ve spent a lot of time talking about dance, but I know that a big part of your life is dedicated to, uh, to wilderness.
Blake Boles 52:46
And can you just talk about like what would be missing from your life if you were not able to go on wilderness trips? Like what, what bucket is being filled by these adventures that you take and you’re free.
Justin Riley 52:58
Oh my gosh, I don’t know if I can would make it. I don’t know if I could do anything else with my life. I didn’t have my wilderness time. Yeah, like as someone like I’ve been on the road for over 20 years and like my return to home is like with a backpack on just like exploring the canyons and to space and source and myself.
Justin Riley 53:32
And I think it’s also a nice counterbalance to the hyper social community centeredness of my work. I think if anyone saw me teaching at a dance event or producing one, you know, probably it was in a city near a mountain range.
Justin Riley 53:50
And probably the best bet is I spent my four days off between events, backpacking or hiking in the Alps or in the Rockies. And I was back down for another event. And yeah, just like a and keeping my body just engaged in ways that feel inspired.
Justin Riley 54:12
I know everyone has their own wilderness, right, that they like are constantly oriented towards. And the thing that kind of brings them back into themselves, even when everything feels confusing and hard and not aligned.
Justin Riley 54:27
And yeah, I just feel really lucky to have one that’s so accessible.
Blake Boles 54:32
Tell me about a few specific trips that you’ve been on. I can give you a constraint if you want in the last decade or just ones that stand out as extremely notable.
Justin Riley 54:43
Oh my gosh. I mean, the funny thing is like so much of the river trip that we were just mentioning that you were on the first year. I’ve done it for five years now. The only one anyone story tells about is that one because they were the most misadventure.
Justin Riley 54:58
And every event was like flawless and amazing and boats didn’t pop and it was just so dialed in this way, where everyone only story tells about the first year because of like the wildness of it and how things didn’t go as planned.
Justin Riley 55:11
And I feel like that’s similar in the wilderness realm as well, like the only ones that like we ever end up storytelling about are the things that didn’t go as planned. And, yeah, the last six or seven years I’ve been getting really into ski mountaineering and I’ve always been a skier but, you know, my adventure buddy surge out of Boulder Colorado him and I were old college buddies, and we’d always organize our entire winters for really yeah almost the almost last decade,
Justin Riley 55:44
to be honest, to have a big ambitious spring ski traverse. We did a few years in the wind river range, you know, 180 miles north to south across the whole range, and multiple summer trips to figure out the route.
Justin Riley 56:00
And then, you know, we failed on our first our first attempt, because four days in a storm mid May that was forecast at five inches was five feet, and we were in a wide out room skiing, holding hands at 13,000 feet for 36 hours as we’re like trying to like figure our way out of the range safely as we bailed out with a three day bailout, or two springs ago, my buddy surge and I were doing a similarly am Bishop were similar spring trip,
Justin Riley 56:38
but in the Sierras, it was going to be about 200 miles and and three weeks on skis and a warm spell. Like on April 20 came in that was unseasonable. And it was a historical snow historic snowpack in the southern Sierra and entire mountainsides were coming down, we got stuck in the range for days.
Justin Riley 57:01
And, you know, really one of the most wild experiences of my life and it was when things didn’t go as planned and you know we were forced to make decisions on our, where we would go and how things would change and to stay safe out there because of like the unseasonably warm snow conditions that we’re bringing down wet slides.
Justin Riley 57:24
We couldn’t get to our food caches and spent five days with no food, doing 20 mile plus days on skis with mountains, with, you know, bloomed historically bloomed rivers, like entire forests that were like leveled from avalanches from that season because it was the largest recorded snow pack in southern Sierra history.
Justin Riley 57:48
And yeah, it was five days of skiing, every single available minute of daylight, plus by headlamp with no food. It was like a, yeah, it was an epic. It was, but really it’s just the storytelling of the ones that when things don’t go as planned is when it gets really rich.
Justin Riley 58:07
It’s what we remember. And it’s honestly like what, you know, and that, you know, had more danger than like our risk assessment was good. But like we, when conditions change, like you have to make sure that you change as well to keep yourself safe and everything.
Justin Riley 58:29
And that’s like that adaptability also that I was talking about and our risk exposure was well above what we had ever set out to do, despite all of our changes of the trip. And yeah, probably, yeah, and feel lucky to be here from it.
Justin Riley 58:47
And yeah, I’ve actually gotten really into climbing and white water rafting more since that. Some nice, safer choices. Totally. But yeah, that is like definitely, you know, the storytelling is always the one that goes the most awry, you know, the ones that are just like beautiful trips in the Alps between small villages or like, you know, those aren’t good for storytelling.
Blake Boles 59:09
Well, I’m going to try to, to draw something out of you here with my next last question. Tell me about a moment of, of like beauty or meaning or transcendence, something that’s quieter than the, the white out in, in the snow storm.
Blake Boles 59:26
Something that could be from the dance world. It could be from the wilderness world. It could just be from your, your more day-to-day existence, but I’m still curious, Justin, where your source of, of meaning comes from.
Blake Boles 59:41
And so maybe give me a quieter moment to, to put a cap on this.
Justin Riley 59:46
Oh, I love that. Thanks for that question, Blake. You know, I think that, like, you know, as life goes, like, I’ve been doing a lot of reflecting this year that, like, you know, life just isn’t what it was advertised as kids, you know, I feel like this whole thing just it’s been more beautiful and more difficult than it was ever told that it was supposed to be.
Justin Riley 01:00:13
As we were kids and being told what to expect and work towards. And, yeah, like, this, like, this last year, I think, particularly has been, like, one of the most difficult ones of my life, in most part because of a separation with my partner in January.
Justin Riley 01:00:32
And it’s, like, really brought myself, like, brought me into myself, into my relationship with Source and, like, having a commitment to something that feels even more stable than, like, a partnership and community and best friends and purpose.
Justin Riley 01:00:53
And, you know, at the age of 40, it’s felt like a really valuable gift, you know, that, like, hard times from heartbreak get to bring me into. And, yeah, like, a lot, like, I share a lot of seated moments, mostly with the sunrises, the sunsets, and the moon.
Justin Riley 01:01:13
And, like, those moments are, like, really almost just, like, an umbilical cord to the center of the earth and meaning they are important in, like, holding everything else that I’m trying to do here in my day-to-day.
Justin Riley 01:01:30
Yeah, thanks for asking. But I think in the past parts of my life, like, that would have been out of protest. It would have been a thrown-in event. It would have been, you know, with a loved one on a date, like, things like that, which I still feel, you know, of course.
Justin Riley 01:01:48
But it’s nice to have, like, beauty and, like, that richness of connection be in, like, every direction, you know, as it scaffoldings out from hardship.
Blake Boles 01:02:00
Yeah, I would be remiss not to mention this, Justin, but at one of the events that you threw in Spain in 2017, I met a woman who I fell in love with and who I ended up trying to move over to Europe, to Germany to be with.
Blake Boles 01:02:19
And it didn’t work out in the long run, but we became friends. And just recently, she has been helping me through a separate breakup. And it’s a beautiful circle. And I would have never met her if we had both not attended one of your events.
Blake Boles 01:02:39
And I probably would not be spending that much time in Europe either, if it were not for that. So just one data point for your your meaning map there.
Justin Riley 01:02:50
Thanks, Blake. So trite. Fall in love with one of Justin Riley’s events.
Blake Boles 01:02:55
Try harder. Everyone does it. Yeah. For people who want to find out about your events or anything else about you, where’s the best place for them to go?
Justin Riley 01:03:07
Yeah, you know right now my productions are called Unbound, so you can go to UnboundFusion.com for my festivals and events and my dance teaching, which I’m doing less of now, is JustinDance.com. You can tell how long I’ve been doing it since I got JustinDance.com.
Justin Riley 01:03:29
But yeah, I’ll be teaching in Europe quite a bit. And yeah, the events are quite special.
Blake Boles 01:03:37
Yeah. If anyone’s listened this far and don’t, they don’t think that then there’s no getting to them. Justin, thanks so much for coming on the podcast.
Justin Riley 01:03:47
Blake, it’s been an absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.