Adrianna Nine is a 28-year-old freelance writer, newsletter author, and desert enthusiast who once traded freedom for a high-paying corporate job—and lived to regret it. (adriannanine.com)
Adrianna breaks down her escape from corporate trust and safety, where she made great money but had no time to spend it, except on gadgets and overpriced appetizers. She describes hitting rock bottom, ignoring everyone who told her writing wasn’t a real career, and slowly building a life of creative independence.
Adrianna does freelance tech and science writing, as well as running a boutique copywriting agency. She averages 25 hours of work per week—leaving plenty of time for baking, gym sessions, desert conservation work, and personal writing projects, including a novel in progress. We get into financial habits that made her transition possible, the realities of self-employment, and why she feels more secure juggling multiple clients than working a single full-time job.
We also discuss her deep love for the Arizona desert, the tattoos to prove it, and how a coyote made her cry in Joshua Tree. She talks about the themes of her newsletter, Creativity Under Capitalism: protecting your time, resisting the urge to monetize everything, and creating what matters.
Full transcript: dirtbagrich.com/adrianna
Recorded in November 2024.
AI Notes
This is an AI-generated summary and transcript. Typos and mistakes exist!
Summary
In this podcast interview, Adrianna shared her transformative journey from a high-paying corporate job in trust and safety to becoming a successful freelance writer. At 24-25 years old, she was making a great salary with good benefits but was deeply unhappy due to long hours and constant on-call demands. Despite earning well, she felt unfulfilled and was unable to enjoy her social life. After recognizing the negative impact on her personal relationships, particularly with her supportive boyfriend, she made the decision to change her life. Adriana now works as a freelance technology and science writer, averaging 25 hours a week, and runs a copywriting agency. She discussed her connection to the desert environment, her writing projects, and her newsletter ‘Creativity Under Capitalism’, which addresses the challenges of creating art and writing in a capitalist society. Adriana emphasized the importance of personal agency and integrity in creative work, and how she has built a fulfilling life that aligns with her values.
Chapters
00:00:15 Corporate Life and Personal Struggles
Adriana described her experience working in trust and safety at a technology company during 2020-2021. Despite making good money and having great benefits, she was miserable due to long hours and being constantly on call. She mentioned buying gadgets like a Roomba and iPad in an attempt to fill the void, but felt unfulfilled.
00:03:02 Social Life and Work Balance
Adriana discussed how her high salary did not open up social opportunities. She missed important events like a friend’s bachelorette party due to work commitments, and when she did socialize, she was often unhappy and tired.
00:05:19 Turning Point and Relationship Impact
Adriana described her ‘rock bottom’ moment when her work stress affected her relationship. During a boxing lesson, she realized she needed to make a change to save her relationship with her supportive boyfriend.
00:07:26 New Career Path and Freelancing
Adriana explained her transition to becoming a freelance technology and science writer, covering topics like electric vehicles and renewable energy. She also runs a copywriting agency and averages 25 hours of work per week.
00:19:53 Connection to the Desert and Personal Projects
Adriana shared her deep connection to the desert environment, particularly the Sonoran Desert. She discussed her tattoos of desert species and her pro bono work with the Mojave Desert Land Trust.
00:25:03 Creativity Under Capitalism Newsletter
Adriana introduced her newsletter, which addresses the challenges of creating art and writing in a capitalist society. She discussed topics like protecting creative time, staying true to personal vision, and the complexities of monetizing creative work.
Transcript
Blake Boles 00:01
Adrianna Nine, welcome to Dirtbag Rich.
Adrianna Nine 00:05
Thank you so much. Happy to be here.
Blake Boles 00:07
Tell me about a time in your life when you seemed to be winning on the outside but you were slowly dying on the inside.
Adrianna Nine 00:15
Ooh, um, this was back in, I believe 2021, um, 2020, 2021, obviously a very tough time for all of us, but, um, I was working in trust and safety at a technology company. Um, this was by training. I had received a bachelor’s in, um, criminal justice and this was my private sector option basically, um, to do investigations for technology companies. And I was making really good money. I was 24, 25 at the time. Um, and by a 24 year old standards and virtually anyone’s standards, I was making a great salary, had great benefits, um, good company culture for the most part, but I was miserable.I was working very long days. I was on call when I was not technically working. Um, so I was constantly dipping out of date nights and events with friends and relaxation time at home. Um, just constantly answering the phone and I was just deeply unhappy. Um, it felt very much like, is this all life really is. And I, because I was making good money, but had nothing to do with it. I was just kind of buying gadgets. Um, since I had no other time to spend it, I was buying things like a Roomba and like an iPad and just things to try to fill the void, I suppose. Um, but it was, it was a pretty unhappy time, but on the outside, you know, career wise on LinkedIn looked great.
Blake Boles 01:49
Tell me about some of your most embarrassing gratuitous purchases.
Adrianna Nine 01:53
Honestly, I’m kind of grateful for most of them. The Roomba is still in my life and the Dyson vacuum is still in my life. And if that thing broke today, I would instantly go out and buy another one. I’m never going back.This is not sponsored, but the iPad I did end up selling to a friend because I realized I never used it. And there were occasions where if my boyfriend and I did make it to a restaurant and actually made it through the entire meal without me having to leave, we would order like multiple dishes of the same appetizer just because we could. That was pretty fun and not really embarrassing. So honestly, it was nice, but it was pretty much what I’m trying to emphasize here is pretty much the only nice thing about making that much money and working that job.
Blake Boles 02:37
What was your social life like with your co-workers, other people at the company? There’s a lot of people who feel like they are able to participate in a certain level of social life, a certain level of recreation and existence because they’re making a high salary.Did you feel like it opened up these, these doors to a wonderful, blossoming social world for you?
Adrianna Nine 03:02
Not at all. I wasn’t able to make it to the things where maybe that money would have unlocked something for me. For instance, I didn’t get to go to one of my close friends bachelorette party in, I think it was Sonoma County. It was like this long weekend. They would do wine tasting and all this other fun stuff. And I couldn’t go because I was working. And that would have been the ultimate time to just kind of throw dollar bills, I guess. But no, I mean, I had to turn down so many opportunities to hang out. And frankly, when I did get a chance to hang out with people, I was just kind of unhappy and tired. So no, that was not a benefit, unfortunately.
Blake Boles 03:41
That’s a pretty sorry state of affairs. When you’re 24, you know, you’re young, you have energy, you should have energy.Uh, did you feel like you were an exception that you just uniquely struggled in this, this high pace, high expectation corporate environment?
Adrianna Nine 03:59
I think when I was at work, I did feel that way because my teammates, which I was on a pretty small team, but they were very chipper and bright eyed and bushy tailed and seemed like it was going really well for them. Obviously, I have no idea what it was like in the background. Many of them still have thriving careers in corporate trust and safety. And that that genuinely makes me happy for them.I’m glad it’s worked out for them. But I wear my emotions on my sleeve. I have a hard time kind of hiding if I’m disgruntled or frustrated or unhappy. And so I do think it started a kind of show. And I don’t know. I think I think maybe back then I felt like I was a little bit of an outlier. But I think looking back now, I don’t think I was at all. I think most people are unhappy with that type of lifestyle.
Blake Boles 04:45
Mmm, they’re just better at hiding it.
Adrianna Nine 04:47
Yeah, perhaps. Yeah, sometimes or eventually, you know, they bottle it up until it explodes later. So you
Blake Boles 04:54
exploded early.
Adrianna Nine 04:55
Yeah, I guess so. I mean, in terms of, you know, still being in my 20s and kind of having the opportunity to change things early. Yeah, I guess I did.
Blake Boles 05:06
You told me when we spoke before that you had some pretty dark times. When did you know that you really had to make a change? What was your version of rock bottom?
Adrianna Nine 05:19
It was towards the end of my career in corporate trust and safety. I was at a point where I was hardly talking to my boyfriend. We lived together and he was, and still is the ideal partner, was picking up all the chores and cooking that I couldn’t take care of when I was working constantly and he was so kind and so supportive. And I don’t know, I still don’t really understand what happened, but I was just like not talking to him.We would be like riding together to a movie in the car and he would try to ask me a question. I would just like stonewall him. And I knew, I knew as I was sitting there, like Adrianna, why are you doing this? This is so messed up. He’s being so kind to you and you’re acting so ungrateful and just so stiff. And I remember being at a boxing lesson. I was doing private boxing lessons a couple of times a week, which frankly was probably extremely necessary at the time. And I remember being in the middle of one and going, if I don’t change something, we’re gonna break up because no one wants to be in a relationship like that. And this relationship is the happiest and healthiest I’ve ever been in. And I couldn’t stand that thought. So I came home and my sweaty clothes sat him down on the couch and said, listen, I’m scared. I hate my life right now. I, from my upbringing have always had the easiest time displaying and feeling anger rather than sadness or fear. And so this is just my reaction and I’m sorry and something’s gonna change. And from that day on, it definitely, it got better. And I slowly started to make a plan to create the life that I kind of had always wanted, but didn’t know was realistic or possible. And when I did eventually break out of that lifestyle by kind of going out on my own, it was literally a night and day difference like the next day. I was just truly a much happier human being and our relationship is a lot happier now for it.
Blake Boles 07:22
So what is this new path that you’re on?
Adrianna Nine 07:26
So I am a freelance technology and science writer. I write a lot of news about electric vehicles and medical advancements and renewable energy, just all sorts of technology and science topics.And I tend to write for one site pretty consistently, but then I pick up other publications and clients here and there. And I also have a copywriting agency. And so I do a little bit of client work. And so yeah, short story or short answer is I’m a freelance writer now and I do my own thing.
Blake Boles 08:01
You said that you kind of knew that you wanted to be doing something else. And you told me before that writing is something that you knew you liked and that you were good at, but people told you that it was not a serious career path.Talk more about that.
Adrianna Nine 08:18
Yeah, I I’ve always been a writer. I’ve always loved writing would write like little books with my friends in elementary school and have always written stories. And but I always kind of thought this is a side project. You know, if I if I’m working another job and I happen to make it big by publishing a book, then congrats. But you shouldn’t bank on that.And I remember growing up and kind of picking up little writing jobs here and there on literally on Craigslist, which is probably not great for like a 1415 year old. But I was and I would get paid via PayPal. And I remember talking to my mom one day at the kitchen counter about turning this into a career. And she said, What career? And I was like, Oh, like, what do you mean? Like, I’m getting paid for this work, it could turn into something. But it just seemed outwardly like that was just not a viable career option. And so that’s why I ended up going to school for criminal justice, because that was something that, you know, you could get a salary job with fairly easily, at least comparatively. But yeah, I didn’t, other than people publishing books, I didn’t really have a model for making a full time living via writing. And so it wasn’t something that I thought was possible for most of my life.
Blake Boles 09:35
Can you tell me a bit more about your family situation and your upbringing and how much support you received and what the expectations were that you went through adolescence and young adulthood with?
Adrianna Nine 09:50
Yeah. So both my parents and my stepdad are very hard workers and I’m endlessly grateful for the work ethic they gave me. My dad is a salesman and my mom and stepdad are nurses. So they definitely work more conventional jobs. I wouldn’t call them nine to fives at all. My mom and stepdad have worked some crazy shifts, but definitely a little bit more stable, I guess, or at least we’re taught to believe that they’re more stable.And to be clear, both of my parents have always been super supportive of my writing. They wanted the best for me and they didn’t want me to bank on writing being a lucrative career and then end up in a bad spot someday. And so they encouraged me to find something else that I enjoyed or was good at. And at the time, I thought that was criminal justice. But yeah.
Blake Boles 10:40
How do you view that kind of advice now? The, we just want what’s best for you. We want you to have a safe career, uh, you know, go study something where you can get a reliable, kind of predictable income. Are you grateful for being nudged down that path?Uh, would you nudge, you know, your own friends or, uh, you know, young people in your life down a similar path?
Adrianna Nine 11:08
You know, I’m pretty conflicted in a way. Yeah, I’m grateful that they did nudge me down that path because I am where I am now. And somehow everything fell just into the place it needed to be for me to be happy now. But I’ll be honest, I sometimes do find myself kind of dishing out similar advice to friends.I have friends who want to start podcasts or otherwise kind of engage with more creative pursuits that aren’t guaranteed to make money. And I always kind of tell them, okay, find something that makes money first and then in your free time, get started with this other pursuit and see where it takes you. And I think that’s because that’s how I operated. You know, I didn’t quit my corporate career having no freelance experience and just kind of trust that I would find something. I was freelancing while I was working full time and it was when I started to make enough money to quit that I left. I do think just, unfortunately, it can be kind of dangerous for people to just trust that they’re more creative or independent pursuit will work out. But I also don’t blame them. I want people to be happy and I fully understand if someone’s like, hey, this life is not for me. I want to do my own thing. I get it. I just, I hope that they have some sort of safety net.
Blake Boles 12:20
I think it’s an interesting and difficult question because I definitely see the advantage of moonlighting and building up a portfolio, especially if you’re freelancing while you still have your stable income, but I’ve also seen people that just never build up the courage to actually quit because, I mean, typically they start spending more when they start earning more. And if you still have that normal, sweet, sweet income, then it’s, it can be very hard to go backwards once we adjust to these higher spending levels. It’s, it’s hard to imagine giving that up.So how did you navigate this transition? And yeah, how did you avoid that trap of spending all the money that you earn?
Adrianna Nine 13:11
Um, so when I was spending frivolously on my little gadgets, I was also saving a lot of money. I, um, I was saving quite a bit because I was under contract on my first home and that was kind of a convoluted situation where I had to be under contract for over a year. So I was actually trapped in my corporate job because at least here in the U S you know, you need to have a stable income before you can, um, close on a house. And so I was already under contract, needed to keep my job.Um, so I was just kind of stashing away money, um, because I knew that once I moved in, I needed to buy furniture and I might want to change the flooring in this room or et cetera. And, um, so I was, you know, beyond buying silly things like the iPad in the room, but like I was saving quite a bit of money. I might, both of my parents raised me with excellent budgeting skills, um, which I also am insanely grateful for. I don’t think I would be a successful freelancer if I didn’t have those skills to be honest.Um, so the entire time, like the moment I started making more money, I called my parents and was like, Hey, help me budget this out because I don’t want to be the type of person who makes a little more money. And they experienced that lifestyle creep where they instantly rent a really nice apartment and they buy a convertible and, and I don’t know all these larger frivolous expenses come through.Um, so yeah, I was, I was purchasing a few little gratuitous things, but for the most part, I was actually being pretty smart about it.
Blake Boles 14:40
So what was the financial advice that you followed? Or another question, how much of your income were you able to save when you were in your high earning period?
Adrianna Nine 14:51
Um, I don’t know the exact percentage or anything. I was probably saving at least half of it. Um, I have always lived either with roommates or with partners. And so at the time I was living with roommates. So my rent was pretty low and, uh, my parents have always emphasized not taking on debt when you can avoid it. And so I didn’t have a car payment. And so, you know, just by having low living expenses, I was able to stash away a lot of that money.And then after my partner and I moved in together, I was kind of able to continue doing that. Um, he’s also, he’s a software engineer, so he makes a pretty healthy salary. And so we’ve never, um, we’ve been very lucky to never really worry about meeting those base living expenses. Um, so yeah, probably about half or so. Um, and then, you know, just really emphasizing to myself, you don’t need to start buying little things, um, that you don’t really need. I remember being at Target and like wanting a nail polish and going, no, like you need to save for your house. So, so I don’t, I don’t know why the room book called to me, but the nail polish didn’t. Um, but overall I was able to just kind of avoid like the lifestyle creep.
Blake Boles 15:56
So how much do you actually work on average each week now in your freelance career?
Adrianna Nine 16:04
I think I average about 25 hours a week.
Blake Boles 16:07
that is pretty sweet. How do you distribute that over the week or the month?
Adrianna Nine 16:14
So because of the contract I have with Extreme Tech, which is the technology and science publication that I write most for, I write a couple articles for them each weekday. I actually work Sunday through Thursday because I’m on a different time zone than them. So it just kind of works out.And I’ve always worked on conventional shifts throughout the week. And so that just kind of, I wanted to keep my Fridays off. But, so that means that each morning I sit down and work for at least a few hours to bang those out. And then if I have work for other publications or I’m doing client work or I want to seek out new work, then I kind of continue that for a few more hours. So most days I am not working for more than six hours. I really try to avoid that. I try to explain to my friends who are still in nine to fives that when you work a traditional job, you might technically log eight hours, but you’re not truly working for all eight hours. You’re getting coffee and you’re taking a bathroom break and you’re looking at your phone or you’re browsing Reddit or whatever. And when you’re a freelancer, you’re only billing for the work that you actually do.And so if I’m billing for six hours, I’m working six hours and writing for six hours is so mentally exhausting. So I really do try to kind of cap it at that. Obviously, if there are deadlines approaching, I’m not a big procrastinator. And so that doesn’t really happen too often, but things pop up. And if I need to, I’ll work longer days but I’ll usually like take myself to a coffee shop. So at least I get a change of scenery.
Blake Boles 17:48
So you’re working 25 hours a week on average. That leaves quite a bit of time for other activities.And I know you, you are involved in a lot. So walk us through what you are doing with all of your time wealth.
Adrianna Nine 18:03
So some of it is entirely self-serving. I bake a lot because I love baking. So oftentimes after I’m done with work, I’ll make some bread or some, I don’t know, pumpkin bread or something like that. And I also go to the gym quite a bit. I’m very grateful that this lifestyle allows me to maintain a healthy exercise habit for the first time in my life.I’ve never been a very active person, but for the last couple of years, I’ve been going to the gym pretty consistently, which is very much something that I’m going to have at this point in my life. But otherwise though, I do co-lead a weekly writing group that meets every Monday and we get together to write personal projects. I write a lot on my own. Again, personally and creatively, I write a newsletter and I was working on a novella that I finished earlier this year, and now I’m working on a new novel and a story, and there’s all these personal projects. I also do pro bono work for the Mojave Desert Land Trust, which is a conservation group in Joshua Tree, California. The desert is something that I care about very deeply and they do amazing work and I love Joshua Tree, and so I do some copywriting work for them.So as much as I just emphasize, I try not to work more than six hours a day. I’m continuing to write after that. It’s just a different type of writing coming from a different part of my brain, I suppose.
Blake Boles 19:22
And it’s writing, I assume you would be doing, regardless of money, of whether you’ll ever earn money from this writing, is that correct?
Adrianna Nine 19:31
Yep. Yeah, it’s writing that I want to do and that fills my soul.I really do like the work that I do for money, but this is stuff that I would do, you know, as long as I had the time still, I would be doing it no matter what.
Blake Boles 19:45
So let’s circle back to your newsletter in a moment. First, tell me about your relationship with the desert. You’re based in Phoenix, Arizona, right?
Adrianna Nine 19:53
I sure am. Yeah. And I lived the first part of my childhood here, spent the latter part of my childhood slash teenage years in Southern California. So not quite as much a desert atmosphere as more the beach. But the moment I could, I returned to Phoenix to attend Arizona State University because I just really love the Sonoran Desert. And it’s something that I’ve always resonated with strongly. When I was a kid, I would borrow all these books from the library about desert animals. And I would just sit at a desk and copy coyote facts onto a legal pad. I don’t know what my plan was for that. But I was just so fascinated with these creatures and with this incredibly resilient biome. And I just, I breathe easier in the desert. I’ve always said that. The moment we would drive from California to Arizona and we’d cross over into this vast open dry desert territory, I would just, a weight would lift off of my chest. I just feel happier here.And so it’s something that means a whole lot to me. And now as an adult, I’m still teaching myself about the different flora and fauna here. I’m learning a lot of plant names, which is super cool. But I’m just very passionate about protecting this area that a lot of people assume is a wasteland, but it’s really not. It’s got this incredible biodiversity and it’s so vital that we protect that. And so whatever I can do to kind of help organizations that already have a game plan to help protect this area, further their mission, I’m more than happy to do it.
Blake Boles 21:31
Tell me about some moments you’ve had in the desert that are extremely special, like these moments where you might feel connected to the environment or, you know, extreme beauty, maybe something even we could call transcendence, uh, what stands out?
Adrianna Nine 21:48
Oh gosh, the last three years I have treated myself around my birthday in May to a very short solo writing retreat in Joshua tree. It’s just an area that I really love. And I’ll go there for just two or three nights, not super long. And I’ll just write and write and read and write and, you know, eat turkey sandwiches and just kind of hang out with myself.And last year I was there in this little cabin kind of off grid just in the middle of the desert. And I was sitting in the hot tub sipping a little bit of wine at the end of the night. And it was, you know, twilight was like very, very moody outside. And this coyote kind of just trotted by. And I had this I started crying because I had this moment of like, this is an animal that I have admired since I was very small. And I don’t get to see it very often because I live in a very urban environment. And I know there are coyotes here, but I don’t get to see them. And me having this time to myself in an area that I’m really connected with and seeing him or her trot by and kind of look at me and then continue on with her beautiful desert life, I felt very, very special.
Blake Boles 22:59
Which desert species do you have tattooed on your body?
Adrianna Nine 23:04
I do have a coyote, and a ocotillo, which is a very funky looking cactus that looks like it should actually be underwater, but it’s very much not. I have a quail, a gambled quail, a scorpion, and a saguaro. I’m trying to think, I don’t think I have anything else.I do have plans to get a roadrunner. One of my good friends is an excellent tattoo artist, and so I’m hoping she can just kind of cover me in the desert.
Blake Boles 23:34
sounds like you’re well on your way. Do you derive just a personal sense of meaning with your connection to the desert or is it important to you to help other people see the value in this, as you said, seemingly barren and lifeless landscape which is actually full of life?
Adrianna Nine 23:54
I think at its core, it’s a personal reward that I get from it. I think the resilience really resonates with me. It’s something that you look at and you go, gosh, like it’s so barren here and there’s nothing going on, but like deep down, some areas of the desert have more biodiversity than the Amazon rainforest and you just wouldn’t expect it. And so it kind of has a little bit of that underdog quality, I suppose, but it is also important to me to help other people respect the desert.I think a lot of people treat it as just like a place to put another golf course on and I don’t love that. So I do have some moments in my life where people will kind of gripe about the desert. Oh, it’s ugly or oh, we don’t need it, whatever. And I’ll get a little back talky with them. But for the most part, it’s very much a personal thing. It will always be just in my blood, I think. And that’s enough for me.
Blake Boles 24:49
let’s come back to your newsletter, which is called Creativity Under Capitalism. How does this relate to your other writing work and why did you start writing this newsletter?It’s a bit more than a year old as of this recording.
Adrianna Nine 25:03
Yeah, so at the time I started it, I kind of noticed myself having the same types of conversations with my friends. Most of my friends do work more conventional jobs, completely understandably, and they would often talk about, you know, how do I make time for my writing? How do I separate myself from all the noise about what I should write, what’s sellable, what’s marketable, what’s trendy? And we would have these conversations over and over.And it’s not like we found any one answer or anything. But I kind of began to realize, you know, a lot of people are struggling with this, including myself, I might have an abundance of time, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that everything I write is super easy, or that I am separate from the capitalistic game that we all play. And so I kind of realized, you know, I had been wanting to start some sort of public project for a while, I sort of envied people who had like YouTube channels or newsletters where they got to talk about these topics that they cared a lot about. And I remember being on a walk and being like, Oh, like, this is a topic that I think a lot about and talk to people about quite a bit. Maybe I could start something. And so I pretty much just checked to see if the name was taken and it wasn’t. And so here we are a little over a year later. And it’s been really fun to kind of build an online community of people who feel similarly about how the economy and society like dictates what we create and how we create and how we can break out of that.
Blake Boles 26:29
Tell me a bit more about what you’ve been writing on the newsletter and what kind of messages or philosophies you are trying to promote. Are you trying to start a revolution?
Adrianna Nine 26:39
Not necessarily. I’m just trying to provide comfort to people. I think solidarity is a big part of it. So no need for a revolution, although that would be awesome.But if we can kind of just band together and trade, I don’t know, techniques or just ways to continue doing the thing that we love without letting the economy totally trample it, that’s enough for me. I’ve talked a little bit about protecting your time. Essentially, it’s in an essay called Do Not Disturb. I talked about how it can be really hard to separate yourself from the day-to-day, the messages that come through on your phone or the laundry, or I think I said something about my cat puking on the rug. Like, how many times must I get up off the couch and divert myself from the thing that I’m writing in order to take care of the rest of life? And so we sort of talked about protecting that time, making sure people in your life understand that this is an important pursuit to you.But we’ve also kind of discussed, and by we, I still just mean me, but I view this as very much a group conversation with other people. Making sure that we stick to what we truly want to write or create, even if a certain topic or theme seems to be popular right now doesn’t mean it always will be. And at the end of the day, it’s important that we create what we feel in our hearts is important.So seems a little corny now that I say it out loud, but clearly it’s resonated with a decent amount of people. And it’s fun to write because again, these are topics that I think about on my own. And so if I’m able to kind of share my thoughts about it and then open up a larger dialogue and it helps even one person or even just myself, honestly, then that’s great.
Blake Boles 28:19
I’m also a big fan of thinking out loud and trying to solve personal problems in a public forum. You do it better with cool original art for each of your posts.
Adrianna Nine 28:30
Thanks!
Blake Boles 28:32
You told me that the newsletter discusses the problem of monetization. Can you tell me a bit more about that? Like what are your beliefs around monetizing content?
Adrianna Nine 28:44
Um, to start, I don’t love calling anything content. Um, I think that was actually maybe my first essay for creativity under capitalism. Um, I very much believe in calling things what they are, which is not always easy. So I forgive you, but, but, um, in terms of monetization, I think there’s a lot of like dialogue about not monetizing your hobbies, right? Like you’re allowed to do something just because you find it rewarding. And I think that’s excellent. You know, I bake, I bake for fun. People always like, would you ever open a bakery? I’m like, hell no. Because then I would have to make the cakes that other people want or the cookies that other people want. And I want to make for me and then gobble them down on my couch with my boyfriend. And that’s enough.Um, and so I think that’s, that’s an excellent dialogue that people are having, but it also gets a little bit complicated in terms of like the amount of labor you put into something. Um, for instance, I know there’s this recent, um, upheaval against people who are sneaking ads into their sub stack newsletters and their argument is, well, I put a lot of labor hours into this. And so, um, I deserve to be compensated for that, which is a totally a fair assessment, but also, um, is it, is it ethical, you know, to sneak ads into things where people might not be able to detect them. So it’s a little bit of a back and forth.Um, and, and like most things that I don’t think there’s ever one straightforward answer, but I do think it’s interesting in the context of again, protecting your joy, um, and something that you truly enjoy and, and finding a way to make that work within, you know, the confines of needing to keep a roof over your head.
Blake Boles 30:20
I feel like I probably share your biases because whenever I’ve done newsletters or any sort of writing in the past or podcasting, I just want to have nothing to do with advertising or sponsorship or feel like there’s any sort of conflict of interest. And honestly, I just feel bad and kind of embarrassed for especially podcasters who are spending three to five minutes promoting some product that maybe they actually believe in, but it’s hard for me to believe that they really believe in it.And I just think, gosh, you are a shill and I want to go make my money elsewhere doing something I hopefully believe in and have a fun time doing it ideally. And then come over here and share ideas that I’m passionate about with no conflict of interest and no one’s second guessing that I’m doing this for any other reason than the thing itself.
Adrianna Nine 31:22
Yup. Yeah, I completely agree. I see a lot of comments on sub-stack or posts about, oh, I want to get my newsletter big so I can write for a living. And I think that’s a perfectly fair thing to want.I think I’d be very hypocritical if I said, oh, don’t say things like that. But I think these people kind of have a little bit of a rose-colored view of how that works. It’s not like you log on and then you write exactly what you’re thinking about that day, then money just falls into your bank account. If you’re getting paid to write something, you’re beholden to someone. And maybe in some cases, that’s perfectly okay. Maybe you align flawlessly with whoever that person or organization’s views or values are. But it certainly gets complicated once you turn something that you enjoy into something that’s also a moneymaker.
Blake Boles 32:11
Yeah. Let’s talk about meaning.You, I want to know where you find your sense of meaning. You have your, your personal writing, uh, you have the newsletter, you have the writing group, you have the conservation projects and your own time out in the desert, and then you have the money you, excuse me, the work you do for money, which is the, the tech and science news. Uh, if you had to choose like which of these activities are your biggest sources of, of meaning and purpose and fulfillment, what would they be?
Adrianna Nine 32:40
Oh gosh, I, like I said earlier, I do genuinely enjoy the work I do for money. I honestly didn’t really expect to enjoy it as much as I, as I do. Um, when I started to write tech and science news, it was more because that was what was in demand, um, rather than because I was truly interested in it. But now I love it.I learned so much and I’m able to participate in conversations that maybe I otherwise wouldn’t have anything to say in. Um, and, and so I think it’s really important that we kind of step outside of our comfort zones sometimes and learn about topics that otherwise we wouldn’t learn about, but I mean, admittedly, the things that I write for myself, they are obviously going to be the most rewarding because I write them for myself and because they’re exactly what I want to write, um, and what I would want to read if I had the opportunity. So, um, yeah, I mean, I think in a way that’s a no brainer.
Blake Boles 33:34
let’s say someone dropped five million dollars into your bank account and you just stopped worrying about having to make money. Which of your activities would you drop pretty quickly?
Adrianna Nine 33:46
I would probably drop my freelance work. I feel so guilty saying that out loud, but I think publishing a book or even just finishing a book that I’m super, super proud of is really a bucket list item for me.And if I really did have millions of dollars at my disposal, I probably would go stash myself away in the middle of the desert and bang that thing out.
Blake Boles 34:08
When you were doing trust and safety for the unnamed tech company, did you feel like you were making an important contribution to the world somehow?
Adrianna Nine 34:18
Oh, no, no, not at all. I was a little bit. Well, my first my first trust and safety investigations job I did feel was a little important. I think it had impact on the individuals that I served.The second job was all about protecting property assets in a way that does not align at all with my personal views. And I was pretty unhappy with that.So towards the end, absolutely not. But at the beginning, yeah, a little bit, but just not comparatively with with my other options.
Blake Boles 34:56
Have you been able to maintain your friendships with people who have more traditional jobs like the one you used to have?
Adrianna Nine 35:05
Oh yeah. All of my friends have more conventional jobs. I am kind of the odd one out and I’m perfectly fine with that.I would love in the new year, I kind of do aim to make more friends who work less conventional schedules just because sometimes I’m done with work at noon and I want someone to hang out with. But there’s really no like bumping heads in regards to what we do for a living or how we do it. I think a lot of people, I mean I don’t want to speak for anyone else, but I do think a lot of people kind of wish that they had more power to choose their work schedule the way that I do. I know a couple of friends of mine explicitly want to get into freelancing full-time and so honestly it excites me to kind of help in whatever way I can guide them towards something that would make them happier in that way. But no, otherwise most of the people in my life have regular old jobs and that’s perfectly okay.
Blake Boles 36:02
You just got to fill those hours between 12 and 6.
Adrianna Nine 36:05
Right. I need a buddy. I need someone to hang out with at Wednesday at 2 p.m.
Blake Boles 36:10
I think that struggle is real. I’ve experienced that a lot in my life and it seems to get harder as you get older.
Adrianna Nine 36:19
Oh, great.
Blake Boles 36:20
Yeah, yeah, you’re 28. Just wait till you’re in your 30s.
Adrianna Nine 36:24
Wonderful.
Blake Boles 36:27
Adrianna, in which way do you feel like your freelance life 25 hours a week may not be working right now? In which way may it be unsustainable? How might you worry about the future?
Adrianna Nine 36:44
I think I worry about it in mostly the same ways that people with more conventional work lives do and that I do worry about, what if we were to experience some sort of recession where a lot of businesses just tighten up their budgets so drastically that I don’t have as much work to do. People with nine to fives have the same concern, right? They worry about getting laid off or becoming redundant and however you want to word it. So I don’t necessarily feel that I’m more at risk than they are, but I do worry about it and I think that’s a completely valid concern.Otherwise though, every now and then I come into this kind of feeling of self-doubt like should I be striving to make more money? There are jobs out there where I could be earning six figures and really just kind of slaying the game. Should I be doing that, stashing away money and then maybe coming back to this in the future? And then I go, nah, because I’ve been there before and I don’t want to be that miserable again. And the fact that I’ve been able to make this freelance life work for nearly three years now in the grand scheme of things is not a super long time, but I feel like with every month that I’m able to keep pulling it off, the more confident I get that I can continue doing it long-term. So honestly, there isn’t a whole lot unique to the freelance life that has me worried.
Blake Boles 38:07
Hmm. I like to think about, uh, things that compound which, which are not money. Uh, and so what you just said, like every month that you were able to pull this off, I imagine is a month that you probably have much better mental health than you would have had in your previous position or a similar position. And that that’s a compounding effect too.And, uh, yeah, you could be in a much different position in life right now. Um, you told me that people, maybe your friends ask you if you’re afraid to be self-employed. How do you respond to these kinds of, uh, seemingly well-intentioned concerns?
Adrianna Nine 38:50
Yeah, I think they are not asking that maliciously. I got that exact question a couple of weeks ago at a bar by someone I had just met. And I always just kind of take the time to explain, in a way, I feel more secure than someone who might work just a regular full-time job. Because if you get laid off tomorrow and you just work that one job, you have lost all of your income. But if I have four or five different publications that I’m writing for or clients that I’m working with, it is extremely unlikely that all of them at the same time are going to drop me for whatever reason. And so in a way, if I lose one of those, it’s a huge bummer. And I’m going to have to find something to fill that slot. But I at least still have some sort of money coming through. And I think a lot of times they go like, oh, I’ve never thought of it that way. And so I think it’s kind of a net positive in the end.But I do keep it real with them. I don’t have benefits the way that full-timers do. And that is something that I miss. I think it’s pretty much the only thing about freelancing that I actively do not like. But currently, being in a relationship with someone that I live with, I’m able to kind of make it work by mooching off of his health insurance. And so I save up my own PTO so I can take time off without totally ruining my budget. And I find other ways around it. But I am honest about that with people who, whether or not they are actually interested in freelancing in the future, I am upfront about that.
Blake Boles 40:22
You might not like me for this question because sounds like you have a wonderful boyfriend, but if he was not in the picture, you said he’s a software engineer with a pretty great salary. What would change in your life and would you be able to continue living the same life that you’re living now?
Adrianna Nine 40:41
Oh, that’s a totally fair question. I think about it a lot. I personally am not comfortable being entirely dependent on a partner. And to be clear right now, even though we do live together and have a wonderful relationship, I am not dependent on him.Sometimes he does pick up more groceries than I do or little things here and there. But otherwise, you know, if he were to poof out of existence tomorrow, I would still be able to afford my mortgage and I would have to take on the Wi Fi bill and that would suck. But oh, well, you know, there are things that I wouldn’t be super thrilled about. But I would still be fine where I’m at. And that is by design. I am not okay with fully just relying on someone else’s income as great as it may may be. I think even just for my own mental emotional health, I want to know that I have ownership over my situation and that if in some sort of crisis, I could pick myself up and deal with it myself. And so I have my own padding and my own budget and everything and I’m fine.
Blake Boles 41:43
I want to take you back to when you were in your corporate job and you were starting to think about your exit plan. Uh, who were your role models or your influences?It sounds like you were not getting much of this, uh, from your family, but did you have friends where there are like authors or people online? Uh, who injected you with this idea that it really is a reasonable idea to become a freelance writer, working with lots of different clients.
Adrianna Nine 42:15
So that’s a tricky one because there really wasn’t anyone in my life or even online who modeled the work life that I wanted to build for myself. Like I said, my parents and pretty much everyone in my family works a pretty conventional job. And there wasn’t anyone I was like following on social media or reading about who lived the life that I wanted.So my strategy was more to kind of cafeteria style, pick the pieces of different people’s lives that I admired or wanted for myself and like meld my own experience, I suppose. And so again, I kind of took the persistence and work ethic and budgeting skills that my parents gave me. And then the maybe self preserving instincts that some of my friends have where they have a very good way of setting boundaries with the people they work with and not allowing themselves to feel unsafe or uncomfortable with the jobs that they work in or take on and sort of started to mesh those pieces together until I built something that I felt comfortable with. But it was a little bit difficult though, because I worried, you know, am I crazy for doing this? Because there wasn’t anyone in my life that I could point out and go, well, they’re pulling it off, so I can’t die. It was just sort of something that I decided to try for myself because I was at such a miserable point where it was kind of like, what do I have to lose?
Blake Boles 43:38
It seems like you were pretty clear on the lifestyle that you wanted to create for yourself. Like what were the non-negotiables when you were out there scanning the horizon?
Adrianna Nine 43:49
I think the biggest thing was I wanted power over who I worked with. I think having that experience in corporate America where you are told every day what to do and who to do it for and how to do it. I don’t like that. I’ve never liked that. I’ve always been a very stubborn, like don’t boss me around type of person. And so I wanted the power to choose my own piece, I suppose, and if I didn’t want to work with a certain client or do a certain task, I wouldn’t do it. And so that was probably my biggest non-negotiable.And I remember towards the end of my time at my corporate job, I bought myself this necklace that was like this beautiful inlaid peace sign of like different stones from the desert. And I still own it and I would wear it every day to remind myself, like, soon you’re going to be able to choose your own piece. And it’s it’s still kind of my reminder. I had to use it last year when I picked up a client who was honestly miserable to work with. And I remembered myself buying that necklace and said, OK, Adrianna, you created this life for yourself so that you would have the power to kick people out of your life if they were making you miserable and it’s time to exercise that power.And I’m glad I did. So I think that was the biggest thing, honestly, was just to have a little more freedom.
Blake Boles 45:03
So it sounds like you are one of these people or one of these personalities that just has a hard time taking orders from people that don’t really make sense or like working under an arbitrary power structure or dealing with bureaucracy that just seems stifling and not helpful. Do you feel like you are unique or alone or special in this regard or that other people feel this way too and they just don’t they don’t respond in the same way.
Adrianna Nine 45:36
I don’t think I’m unique in that. I think, like I said earlier, maybe there was a moment during my corporate life where I was kind of insecure about that, thinking, am I the odd one out? Do I need to change the way I feel about this? But looking back now, I think especially after COVID-19 changed a lot of how we think about work and our relationship to work, I think there are a lot more people out there that feel the way I do than I ever would have anticipated.And I don’t think it’s fair that we are led into life expecting to spend all of our waking hours working for someone else and doing the things that they tell us to do, how they tell us to do it. And I don’t blame anyone else who is lying in their bed at night going, like, is this really all there is? Is this all my life is supposed to be? Is just waking up five days out of seven a week or eight, maybe even more, and just doing what someone else wants me to do? So I’m grateful that a lot of us are thinking a little more critically about that and starting to kind of reshape the way that we engage with work when we do have the opportunity to do so. And I feel very solidly that I am in good company there.
Blake Boles 46:47
Yeah. And especially with your newsletter, you are, you are gaining followers.It’s not, you might be creating a small revolution here, Adrianna. I just want to say that on the record so that years later, someone can, can drum this up and said, Blake called it ahead of time.
Adrianna Nine 47:03
You knew.
Blake Boles 47:04
Um, so one last question before I ask you how people can find you online, uh, has to do again with your newsletter. Uh, like what kind of, of message, if you were going to get famous for, for something that you wrote on your newsletter and become well-known for just one idea or one meme or one call to action, like what, what would it be?What, what do you feel most strongly about that you want to associate yourself with, with something that feels, Ooh, a bit extreme.
Adrianna Nine 47:38
Hmm. I think, I think it all comes down to personal agency and integrity and making sure that you are doing things that are in alignment with your values and what you find important or vital to you.And obviously with creativity under capitalism, there is a more artistic slant to that, making sure that you’re creating the art that feels true to you or writing the things that are meaningful to you. But there’s also, of course, you know, that more capitalistic instinct where, um, if you are kind of questioning, is this really the way that I’m supposed to be working for someone else or am I really supposed to be, um, trying to fit into this sort of salable or marketable mold that I don’t feel comfortable with. You do have the power to, um, sort of, I hate this phrase, but march to the beat of your own drum, um, create a life for yourself that does feel true and authentic. Um, and, and we don’t all need to be doing things the same way at the same time, um, every day. So, um, yeah.
Blake Boles 48:42
Amen. Adrianna, how can people find you online or follow what you’re doing?
Adrianna Nine 48:49
Yeah. So my newsletter, uh, creativity under capitalism is at creativity under capitalism.substack.com.Um, I also do have a boutique copywriting agency 99 degrees, which is at that’s hot copy.com. Um, great to me. Thank you so much. I’m worried about Paris Hilton coming in and trying to sue me for that one. But, um, I think she’s nice enough not to, but, um, yeah, so that’s, that’s where I am. I’m really trying to separate myself from other social media like Instagram. So I don’t want to direct anyone there, but I am at the newsletter. That’s where I’m most active for better or worse and, um, hope to see people there.
Blake Boles 49:28
Adrianna, thanks so much for coming on the podcast.
Adrianna Nine 49:31
Thank you so much. This was a wonderful opportunity.