Dirtbag Rich Interview with Brittany Goris

Brittany Goris is a 31-year-old nomad who lives in her van, works 15 hours a week doing graphic design, and spends the rest of her time as a professional rock climber. (brittanygoris.com / @gorisb)

We discuss what Brittany learned from witnessing bankruptcy as a child, the guilt she feels when eating at restaurants, how her life truly began when she moved into her car, and the deep sense of belonging she feels among like-minded misfits in the climbing world. Much like me, Brittany feels listless whenever she stays in one place longer than three months; then she moves, and everything gets better.

As a child, Brittany’s dad nudged her toward a more high-achievement path, while her mom was an artistic dreamerβ€”a combination she believes led to her ability to simultaneously manage money and live a passion-centered life. While Brittany has plenty of savings and pays her own way as an adult, she also acknowledges that her family safety net (which would provide a place to stay if she ever gets sick or injured) enables her lifestyle.

Brittany observes how difficult it can be to sustain the dirtbag climber lifestyle over the long haul. Whether you’re a high-paid tech worker or a low-paid seasonal worker, stress and burnout are real threats, and maintaining romantic relationships is challenging. In the past, Brittany worried about whether she’d have a good social life on the road and if she could survive a vehicle breakdown in the middle of nowhere. Now, she doesn’t worry about either.

Beyond her fully remote graphic design work, Brittany earns a little money from climbing sponsorships, public speaking, teaching climbing clinics, and working at a rock gym.

Full transcript: dirtbagrich.com/brittany

Recorded on October 14th, 2024.Β 

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AI Notes

This is an AI-generated summary and transcript. Typos and mistakes exist!

Summary

This is an interview with Brittany Goris, a professional rock climber and ‘dirtbag’ who lives in a van full-time. She discusses her minimalist lifestyle, financial management, and the sense of freedom and belonging she finds in the climbing community.

Key points include:

– Brittany earns around $15,000-$20,000 per year through a mix of graphic design work, sponsorships, clinics, and writing. She lives very frugally, spending little on housing, food, and entertainment.

– Her upbringing, with a mother who pursued artistic dreams and a father from an engineering background, gave her the tools to live unconventionally while being financially responsible.

– The climbing community attracts ‘misfits’ who don’t conform to societal norms, allowing deep connections through shared experiences and values.

– Challenges include sustaining romantic relationships due to the transient nature of the lifestyle, and concerns about health/injury while living in a van.

– Brittany finds purpose in her work promoting STEM education for girls and feels mentally and physically healthier living an active, outdoor lifestyle.

Chapters

00:00:10 Introduction to Brittany’s ‘Dirtbag’ Lifestyle

The interview begins with Brittany explaining her ‘professional dirtbag’ branding, which refers to her minimalist van-dwelling lifestyle as a professional rock climber. She lives very cheaply, spending little on housing, food, and entertainment, in order to pursue her passion for climbing while working as little as possible due to the lack of financial support in the sport.

00:02:01 Financial Management and Income Sources

Brittany discusses her various income sources, including part-time graphic design work, sponsorships, clinics, writing, and public speaking. She earns around $15,000-$20,000 per year and is conscious of her spending, often feeling guilty about unnecessary expenses due to her upbringing with financial struggles. She saves and invests for retirement but trusts that her hard work will lead her where she needs to go.

00:13:28 Sense of Freedom and Belonging in the Climbing Community

Brittany finds a sense of freedom and belonging in the climbing community, which attracts ‘misfits’ who don’t conform to societal norms. She values the deep connections formed through shared experiences and values, and feels accepted in a way she didn’t in her earlier life. The outdoor lifestyle and constant change also align with her need to roam, which she attributes to humanity’s hunter-gatherer roots.

00:42:41 Challenges and Concerns

Brittany acknowledges the challenges of sustaining romantic relationships due to the transient nature of the lifestyle, and concerns about health and injury while living in a van. She also discusses the potential mental health toll of being confined to one place for too long, which she avoids by constantly moving.

00:40:02 Purpose and Fulfillment

Brittany finds purpose in her work as a graphic designer for a nonprofit promoting STEM education for young girls, as well as in her climbing pursuits. She feels mentally and physically healthier living an active, outdoor lifestyle and believes in the healing effects of nature. Her upbringing, with a mother who pursued artistic dreams and a father from an engineering background, gave her the tools to live unconventionally while being financially responsible.

 

Full Transcript

 

Blake Boles 00:00

Brittany Gorris, welcome to Dirtbag Rich.

 

Brittany Goris 00:02

Thank you, happy to be here.

 

Blake Boles 00:05

Your website calls you a professional dirtbag. What does that mean?

 

Brittany Goris 00:10

So that was something I branded myself because I am a professional rock climber. Um, but if you look at kind of the spectrum of other professional climbers out there, most of them have a bit of a different lifestyle than me.

 

Brittany Goris 00:28

Uh, my life is very minimalistic. I lived in my van full time. I’m coming up on my sixth year of anniversary in a week or two. And I just essentially try and make my career as a professional climber sustainable while doing the least amount of other work as possible, because there’s not really a whole lot of financial support in climbing, no matter, you know, like my sponsors do their best, but it’s just not really like a full time job.

 

Brittany Goris 01:01

And so in order to pursue my dreams and the lifestyle I want, I live very cheaply and, um, just try and, you know, have minimal expenses. And, uh, that’s, I sort of present myself as the least professional professional that somehow getting by.

 

Blake Boles 01:27

Where are you right now?

 

Brittany Goris 01:30

Yeah, I’m in my friend’s driveway in Moab, Utah, which is one of my all absolute, all -time favorite places on earth.

 

Blake Boles 01:39

and you are inside your van.

 

Brittany Goris 01:41

Correct.

 

Blake Boles 01:42

Your home on wheels.

 

Brittany Goris 01:44

Yeah.

 

Blake Boles 01:45

and your office.

 

Brittany Goris 01:48

Uh, yeah, I work from libraries as much as I work from my van.

 

Blake Boles 01:53

And what is your work? How do you make money to be the professional dirtbag and not just a mere everyday dirt bag?

 

Brittany Goris 02:01

So I have quite a few sources of income, but I would say that my main hustle is I work as a graphic designer and that I work pretty part -time, but I’ve worked for the same company for six years now, since 2016. And that is completely remote. And then I also make a portion of my income just from being a professional climber. And then I also occasionally work at a gym here in the lab very occasionally. And I also teach occasional clinics and climbing instructional camps. And sometimes I publish my writing and sometimes I do public speaking. And I just essentially under my… I’m a graphic designer as one side, and then the other side, everything falls under the umbrella of rock climbing. That isn’t my design job.

 

Blake Boles 03:14

Got it. And how much money have you made using this kind of hodgepodge approach over the years? Like where were you when you started this life financially and where are you now?

 

Brittany Goris 03:29

Well, last year actually made the most money I’ve made ever. Um, but I think part of that was just because of a really generous Christmas bonus from my boss. Well, let’s just say I make little enough that I got kicked off my healthcare and I now I’m on, uh, Medicaid and I make enough to repair my van occasionally, um, I, it’s usually between 15 and $20,000 a year.

 

Blake Boles 04:09

And is that a number that you’ve built up to? Has it been like that for a while? How little were you able to live on earlier in this life?

 

Brittany Goris 04:20

Oh, I think I started out probably making around $11 ,000 a year.

 

Blake Boles 04:26

And for people who hear that number and are just flabbergasted, like how do you actually spend that money and, and live your life climbing all the time and traveling around, how does, how would $11 ,000 work?

 

Brittany Goris 04:40

I don’t spend it. I save it. My expenses are really minimal. I usually probably… So I drive a 2003 Econoline. So I spend money on gas, but I don’t spend that much money on gas because my van actually does okay.

 

Brittany Goris 05:00

My build is pretty light. I think a lot of more modern, nicer vans are actually way worse. And I have my general bills, like car insurance. And then I usually have to repair my van once or twice a year.

 

Brittany Goris 05:22

It always costs $1 ,000. And then I have food and I try and cut down on food expenses by doing as much dumpster driving as I can. I have to buy some climbing equipment. Most of my climbing equipment I get from my sponsors.

 

Brittany Goris 05:42

So that’s not the expense that it would be for most climbers, but it is still sometimes an expense. And gosh, what else is there? That’s all you need, right? It’s gas, food, and climbing gear.

 

Blake Boles 06:00

How about entertainment? How about going out to eat? How about traveling internationally? Just stuff like that.

 

Brittany Goris 06:11

Well, so I’ve stayed domestic for most of my time living on the road. I’ve actually become more invested in international travel recently, and that is definitely an expense. So I went to Australia last winter as a big trip for a couple of months, and I probably dropped two grand on plane tickets.

 

Brittany Goris 06:34

But once I was there, I was living in a tent the entire time. We had five people sharing one Subaru, and the exchange rate is really good. So I didn’t really spend any money that I wouldn’t have spent here in the US aside from the plane ticket.

 

Brittany Goris 06:53

So that’s what my big travel looks like, is maybe I’d stay in a hostel if I had access to one or I’d camp. And I don’t really go out a whole lot. I don’t really enjoy it. Going out to eat that much, I prefer home cooked food.

 

Brittany Goris 07:19

I actually don’t really care about food that much at all. I could eat oatmeal for three meals a day and be totally fine.

 

Blake Boles 07:26

What a superpower.

 

Brittany Goris 07:28

I know. I quit drinking almost two years ago, but I did used to spend a bit more money on going out for drinks because that was like kind of a hobby going to breweries. And that’s definitely saved me a lot of money.

 

Brittany Goris 07:43

But I do, you know, I spend occasional money on entertainment. I might like go to the movies or I do go out to eat, you know, maybe once a month, which maybe doesn’t seem like a lot to some people, but like any time that I do at all, I kind of feel guilty about it. Like this is an unnecessary expense.

 

Blake Boles 08:08

Huh, let’s play with that. Like, guilty in what way? Where does that come from?

 

Brittany Goris 08:15

Um, well, I just, I, I grew up with during, um, I, uh, my mom went through bankruptcy when I was a teenager and we, I was very aware of how a lot of the money kind of had to be saved. And during that time, as I was sort of learning to manage my own money alongside that as a young adult and, um, you know, we said no to almost everything.

 

Brittany Goris 08:49

It was like a huge deal for us to go skiing one weekend a year because we just like couldn’t really afford all of the stuff that goes along with it. And so it, it just was like to go out to the movies or to go out to eat was treated as, you know, a treat or a reward or an indulgence rather than just like a thing that is part of everyday life.

 

Brittany Goris 09:16

And so as someone who is just only able to really live the life that I want by being very conscious of how I spend my money on things like that. Um, yeah, I feel a little guilty if I go out to eat because it’s not, I don’t, that isn’t really treating myself to me. Like if I were going to treat myself, I would probably like go buy clothes or something, not, um, not food. And so it doesn’t really feel like I’m doing something that’s worth it a lot of the time. It’s usually just like I want to spend time with friends, not I want to buy restaurant food. Uh, and so it’s kind of like, I would just as much rather not go. And so it does feel, that’s why I’m just like, why did I go along with this?

 

Blake Boles 10:12

that that guilt of like I just dropped $50 on this meaningless experience

 

Brittany Goris 10:19

Yeah. And especially like I’m, I’m paid hourly for most of the things that I do or for like half of the things that I do. And so like, I kind of know what my time is worth. And, and you know, if I like go spend $50 at a restaurant that I’m like, well, if I only work 15 hours a week, that’s, that’s a couple of those hours.

 

Brittany Goris 10:39

And so, you know, I just like, I know what my time is worth and, and I can’t help but think about the money I spend in regards to, you know, how much work I have to do to get it back. Cause like, I love my job, but I don’t really like the act of working enough that I want to do it more so I can spend more.

 

Blake Boles 11:02

So you work about 15 hours a week?

 

Brittany Goris 11:04

Um, for my graphic design job. Yes. I also consider like my, all of the time that I invested to climbing as like to me, I would do it either way. It’s what I love, but it, because it is also a source of my income.

 

Brittany Goris 11:20

Um, you know, the hours I spend training in a gym or trying to accomplish my goals, like that is sort of also my career. And so it’s not that I’m working 15 hours a week. And then I’m just playing the rest of the time. Like my, it’s, it’s this gray area between the two.

 

Blake Boles 11:39

I feel like a lot of us are in that gray area. Yeah. Tell me like what is so wonderful about your life that you are choosing to live in this very different way like what are some maybe some recent moments that remind you like this is why I’m doing this like a moment of like beauty or transcendence or connection something like that.

 

Brittany Goris 12:02

Well, to me, it felt like when I moved into my car, because I had a car before my van that I lived in for a year, it felt like that was when my life truly started. It felt like everything that I ever did before that was just sort of a prologue.

 

Brittany Goris 12:22

And in the last couple of years, just this lifestyle makes me feel alive in a way that I never did living the status quo. And I think it’s because one of the things I value most is freedom. Stability doesn’t really hold a whole lot of value to me compared to freedom.

 

Brittany Goris 12:48

And I just have this ability to do whatever I want. I’m not tied down by the constraints of living in one place. And I think that’s sort of one of the core appeals that brought me to the road. But I think what kept me there and what really made me fall in with the life that I lead is that it feels like my calling.

 

Brittany Goris 13:28

And because of that, I just really feel like I belong in the places that I go and the way that I live. Because the way that you spend time with people is very different. So essentially, if I’m in my van and I go to Indian Creek, which is the perfect example of what I’m going to describe.

 

Brittany Goris 14:00

And it’s a rock climbing area outside Moab. And you don’t have any cell phone service. And you’re kind of far from town. And you’re just in a campground with all of these people. And they’re the first people you see when you wake up in the morning.

 

Brittany Goris 14:13

And then you go climbing together all day. And you share all these emotional moments. And then you make dinner together. And then you sit around a campfire together. And then you go to sleep and then you wake up the next day and you do it all again.

 

Brittany Goris 14:32

And while that’s not what my life looks like every single day, it’s a really core example of the way that you build connections with people. And you have all this common ground of living the same lifestyle and loving the same places and the same activities.

 

Brittany Goris 14:53

And you just build these really, really deep, meaningful connections with people. And through that, I just found that I fit in, in a way that it didn’t really feel like I did for a lot of my life and in a lot of places.

 

Brittany Goris 15:15

Because not only… I really love nature, I really love being outside. And so I getting to spend all of my time in places that I love, that are beautiful, and that inspire me really builds the sense of place.

 

Brittany Goris 15:28

And then I have the freedom to go to any place that I want. And then I have just the sense of belonging of that place, then accepting me because I fit with the people there. And the thing I love uses the land. And it just all kind of works together harmoniously to reward the things that I value most.

 

Blake Boles 15:53

Hmm. I’ve heard you quote the Big Wall climber Paul Piana. He said, it goes without saying that skill is a necessary ingredient for climbing, but good friends with the proper spirit are imperative. And I’m curious, what?

 

Blake Boles 16:09

What’s the proper spirit? Who? What brings out the sense of community and the sense of belonging that you’re describing, which I feel like so many people crave, and they never quite seem to get it.

 

Brittany Goris 16:22

I love that quote. And Paul is such a gem. He is a friend of mine. Now, I was so lucky to get to meet one of my heroes and for them to turn out to be exactly who I thought they’d be. But I think, I think it’s not just dirtbags.

 

Brittany Goris 16:41

I think it’s just the climbing community in general really attracts people that are like, at least for me, are just the people that I get along best with. And I think, I think a big part of it is that the lifestyle that is built around, you know, all of the things that I do and love is relatively counterculture.

 

Brittany Goris 17:16

And it’s, you know, maybe not so much now as it used to be as its origins, because, you know, hashtag bound life kind of blew up. And there’s a lot of people that do it a bit more recreationally and less as a lifestyle.

 

Brittany Goris 17:31

And so you might not actually think about it as being quite so counterculture. But if you look at the people doing it full time, and really committed, and, you know, even if they’re, you know, working a tech job from the road, and they’re making decent money, and they have nice stuff, and they, they aren’t scrapping it together, they’re still living like an alternative lifestyle.

 

Brittany Goris 17:54

And I think that just that way of thinking brings together a lot of people that just didn’t really fit anywhere else in life. And that common ground of just sort of, you know, being a misfit. And not really having that sense of belonging anywhere else creates like one of the strongest pieces of common ground you could ask for in a community.

 

Brittany Goris 18:28

Because, you know, like I didn’t really have a lot of friends growing up. And now, you know, I have more friends than I can keep up with, because it’s hard to stay in touch when you’re traveling all the time.

 

Brittany Goris 18:41

But I just meet so many people everywhere I go. And everyone that I meet is the same as me where they’re just, you know, they’re not like the people that were quarterbacks in their high school, high school football teams.

 

Brittany Goris 18:55

They’re the people that kind of looked at the world and the way that you’re supposed to technically like status quo told to do this, that or the other thing and turned away from it. And, you know, you could break that further down into any manner of personality traits.

 

Brittany Goris 19:17

But I think at its core, it’s just, it attracts a certain kind of person that we just gravitates towards others like it. And it makes it really easy to feel free to be yourself. Because you’ve already shed off all of the ways that the world tells you you’re supposed to be.

 

Brittany Goris 19:40

And then, you know, that kind of just like authenticity makes it pretty easy to like someone and to get to know someone because they’re not pretending to be anything. They’ve already made the choice to be who they really are and who they want to be by leaving behind the status quo.

 

Blake Boles 20:04

Yeah, I want to dwell on that. Maybe you can speak for yourself, but maybe also for your friends. How are you not able to conform to modern society? In what way are you not able to play along with the normal rules of the game?

 

Brittany Goris 20:21

I think the biggest thing for me is just staying put. I find for myself that I have a really hard time being in one place for more than, I’ve found three months to be the limit. I just get burned out and it is really consistent.

 

Brittany Goris 20:41

It doesn’t matter where I am. It doesn’t matter who I’m with more than two to three months anywhere. And I just lose all motivation to do anything. I’m not creative. I’m not energetic. I’m not inspired.

 

Brittany Goris 20:55

I’m just bored and a little bit bummed out and just antisocial. And so I have to move. And as soon as I switch places, I instantly feel better. And it has happened over and over and over and over again.

 

Brittany Goris 21:14

And I just don’t really understand how people get through that when they live in one place. And I think something that a fellow dirtbag once said to me really reigns true for me personally, which is that our society was the modern world was built as a farming culture where you have to live on the farm to raise your crops, to feed your family, to make a living.

 

Brittany Goris 21:49

And that sort of establish our culture as being very location based. And if you look at humans before that, we were hunter -gatherers and we moved around all the time. And I think there is that wildness and that need to roam is still within people.

 

Brittany Goris 22:12

It’s why we go on vacation. And for some of us, it’s just so strong that you can’t ignore it. And that’s the thing that kills me about the way that modern society is structured is that there are these two different origins of human beings and we’re just conditioned and expected to not have the choice as to which one we are and which one we want to be.

 

Brittany Goris 22:41

And that’s something I have always struggled with even when I didn’t know that I was struggling with it when I was younger. And so I think that’s the biggest one for me.

 

Blake Boles 22:55

Tell me about your early life and growing up, you previously told me that you come from a lineage of engineers with pretty high expectations for conventional success.

 

Brittany Goris 23:07

I had, you know, I, I come from privilege, you know, there’s no, there’s no denying that. And I wouldn’t want to because my family has worked really hard to be quite successful. Um, but I, I come from a lot of kind of two opposing schools of thought, which is like the very linear status quo, go to school, get a degree, become an engineer, make a lot of money, buy a big house, start a family.

 

Brittany Goris 23:38

I know that is one side of my family. And you know, coming from that, like my, my dad is that, like he worked really hard. He has a beautiful home, a wonderful life. He’s so smart. You know, I have nothing but the highest respect for him.

 

Brittany Goris 23:54

Um, but it is like this very sort of like logical linear recipe. And it then on the other side, my parents got divorced when I was in fifth grade and my mom’s side, um, is like my mom is an artist and very much like a freethinker and the kind of person that would, that would diverge from, you know, what is expected because she wants different things out of life.

 

Brittany Goris 24:27

And, um, also so like at the same time and, um, when she like tried to start a business and it didn’t work out and that’s why we struggled financially for a while. Um, but watching that, she, she went after her biggest life dream in the most committing way possible and that it didn’t work out, which is such a bummer, but it also was one of, you know, when I was young, it was the only time I’d ever seen anyone do something like that,

 

Brittany Goris 25:06

you know, just instead of just always like having a big crazy dream to actually try and go for it. And so, you know, I, combining the sort of engineering track of this, this really expected normal way of life, contrasting with this like artistic dreamer, but like also having no money sort of life.

 

Brittany Goris 25:38

Um, I think, those two things combined, I’m so lucky. They, they gave me the tools I needed to, um, to live the way I do now, you know, like to be good with money and to know, what matters and to be brave enough to follow my dreams, et cetera, et cetera.

 

Blake Boles 26:01

What was your mom’s big dream?

 

Brittany Goris 26:04

Uh, she wanted to open a, like a fiber weaving, netting, yard store. Um, and she, she’s had other dreams that she’s also followed. She moved to the coast, was the first person in her family to go to college, you know, a lot of really impressive things like that.

 

Blake Boles 26:25

When you told your parents that you were going to try to become a professional rock climber, and later that you’re moving into your van, how did they respond? Were they supportive? Was there some underlying criticism or worry?

 

Brittany Goris 26:42

there’s definitely worry. And it wasn’t really that I told them anything. Because also I left home at 17 to go to college and moved to the other side of the country. I moved to Washington. My parents are from Colorado.

 

Brittany Goris 27:01

And so I’d already been living fully independently on my own for quite a while. And so it wasn’t like I just one day dropped this huge bomb on them that I was going to go do something crazy. I was already taking a lot of trips to go climbing.

 

Brittany Goris 27:17

I would go to Europe. I would go to Mexico. It wasn’t anything new that I was devoting a lot of my time to climbing. And I wasn’t a professional climber yet at that point. And that was also not a thing I just decided to do.

 

Brittany Goris 27:34

It was a thing I built up slowly over many, many years. So the wheels were already in motion for that. But at the time, I never would have even dreamed that I would be where I am now in terms of my career as a climber.

 

Brittany Goris 27:52

But I was simply interested in pursuing being a dirtbag. And my parents took it really well, a lot better than you’d think. Because as much as my mom just loved it, she adores my life and wants to travel more herself and loves to live through my adventures with me.

 

Brittany Goris 28:16

And I received zero criticism ever from her. And I think my dad had maybe more concerns, but again, zero criticism. I think he just is very much like a planner and a long -term thinker. And I think he was probably thinking things like, oh, how’s she going to save up for retirement and stuff like that.

 

Brittany Goris 28:43

But he also, he’s done a lot of really… He was also a person that was divergent in his family. He did all these crazy things when he was young too. He came from a religious background and he was the first one to leave the religion behind.

 

Brittany Goris 29:00

And he moved to Colorado. Instead of joining the military, he became like this mountain man and climbed all the 14ers and grew out this huge mane of hair and this giant beard that everyone in the clean cut family hated.

 

Brittany Goris 29:14

And even though he still followed the career path of the family, he was a person that also was willing to leave things behind for the sake of living the life he wanted. And so they get it. They both get it.

 

Brittany Goris 29:33

And they both want me to be happy and they want me to do the things I love. And so if that’s the intention, it’s kind of a no -brainer that you would support someone’s choice like that.

 

Blake Boles 29:47

Yeah, that’s real privilege.

 

Brittany Goris 29:49

Yeah, yeah, no, and I’m aware of it and I’m grateful for it.

 

Blake Boles 29:55

I’m going to ask you a few money questions. Do you feel empowered to live the way you do because you have access to some sort of generational wealth or expect to receive an inheritance?

 

Brittany Goris 30:07

No, um, I, you know, I, I definitely would say that I have a lot more financial stability thanks to my, uh, family than other people. Um, you know, I don’t, I don’t have a trust fund and I don’t have, I’m not living my life because I’m expecting an inheritance or anything, but, um, I, and I have, so I have my own savings.

 

Brittany Goris 30:38

I have plenty of savings that I’ve, because I’ve been saving my money my entire life and I’d spend very little of it. And so I have my own ability to support myself if anything crazy were to happen, if I needed just like some, like if I just, you know, if everything fell apart and I, you know, my health or my vehicle or, you know, the world, you know, who knows, but I also know that if for any reason that weren’t the case,

 

Brittany Goris 31:09

I could fall back on the support of my family. And, um, you know, I, I did, my college was paid for, I don’t have any debt. Um, I, there’s one or two things like my, I’m a shelf. Um, and while I could pay for it myself, my dad always really likes to support me by helping with van repairs and upgrades and stuff like that, that I want to do.

 

Brittany Goris 31:42

And so I think that I definitely do have a lot of privilege from family, but I can also say with certainty that I would live the same life without it. I would just maybe have a few less bells and whistles.

 

Blake Boles 32:06

And when you feel that concern from your dad or from someone else about retirement, about that kind of long -term financial security, how do you respond to it? What’s your answer to other people? What’s your answer to yourself?

 

Brittany Goris 32:24

Well, I think the things that actually are concerned about or more about safety is not for me, but for my family. I think, you know, they worry just that I’m being safe because I spend most of my time doing a pretty adventurous physical sport that has a lot of uncontrollable elements to it.

 

Brittany Goris 32:45

So I think they worry more about safety in terms of that. But because they, you know, they know that I’m good with money and that I’ve been working towards it and like I do save, you know, I invest, I have, um, I do have like savings for retirement.

 

Brittany Goris 33:00

And so it’s not a thing I worry about. And I don’t know that my parents worry about it that much either for me anymore. You know, maybe, maybe it was like a thought at first, but I’ve proven that I can do just fine living this life and that I’ve, you know, I, I build my career more and more over the years.

 

Brittany Goris 33:25

And as time goes on, I, I am able to support myself better and better. And so, you know, I don’t, I couldn’t say right now that I have like a five year plan or a 25 year plan or anything like that, but I trust that I will get wherever I need to go.

 

Brittany Goris 33:45

Just because that has been what’s happened thus far is that, um, you know, I’ve put in the work and I’ve gotten the results and that, that seems to be the whole recipe.

 

Blake Boles 33:59

That’s the security.

 

Brittany Goris 34:02

Yeah.

 

Blake Boles 34:04

Where did you learn your financial prowess? Where’d you get your money management skills? Was it just to become baked in?

 

Brittany Goris 34:14

No, I think a lot of it was just going through bankruptcy as a kid. I learned both that you don’t need money to be happy and also how to save money. I would go grocery shopping with my mom and we would have an exact budget of how much we could spend and we would choose what we would want.

 

Brittany Goris 34:44

Based on that, we would say, if you get this thing, you can’t get the other thing. You can’t buy brand name stuff. You got to buy this stuff off the bottom shelf. That’s the cheap Kroger knockoff. We would know how much that one weekend of skiing a year needed to be celebrated and enjoy it because we weren’t going to get to go again. I think like that both taught me how to save money, how not to spend it, and also how little you actually need.

 

Blake Boles 35:27

What do you see in your climbing friends who do come from more money, who came from a default level of higher spending? Um, how successful are they at being long -term climbers who have a lot of time wealth, um, did they find their own way or do you see different struggles?

 

Brittany Goris 35:49

Hmm. Everybody kind of makes it work in different ways, which is very cool. And you get to see a lot of creativity in the ways that people make themselves successful. I think the one thing that I see that is when people do have the higher paying jobs that they work remotely from those tech jobs that are more of a career sort of thing.

 

Brittany Goris 36:15

They do have a lot less time. They have a lot more specific times that they have to work, times they have to be in service, resource needs to make that happen, whether it’s power or sunlight to get solar or internet.

 

Brittany Goris 36:36

And they just have a general higher level of stress and disappointment that they have to miss days out when they have to be somewhere specific. But then they probably have nicer vans and maybe they’ve got Starlink.

 

Brittany Goris 36:55

So it is interesting. And one thing I’ve also seen is that the people that are working more career type jobs while living on the road to support themselves, at the moment, there are a lot of times when I see them thinking the grass is always greener and being bombed that they’re working so much.

 

Brittany Goris 37:19

But then I also see the opposite with the people that do seasonal work or just pick up jobs here and there, but that the jobs aren’t ever leading anywhere. Eventually, I’ve seen people kind of burn out on traveling because they just get tired of working these shitty jobs and not having any money.

 

Brittany Goris 37:42

And they start to crave more purpose, I think. And for me, purpose comes from climbing because that is also a career thing for me. And it satisfies all these needs of direction and accomplishing goals and growing as a person and all of that.

 

Brittany Goris 38:08

But for people who the climbing is maybe was the foundation of why they’re a dirt bag, it isn’t the same. And after a while, to kind of wake up every day and do whatever you want, lackadaisical thing, can not be enough anymore.

 

Brittany Goris 38:29

And I’ve seen a lot of people going back to school in their 30s and making these career changes. And those still are based around wanting to support an alternative lifestyle. A lot of people go into nursing so that they could do travel nursing or anything that enables travel.

 

Brittany Goris 38:50

But I’ve seen a lot of people that are revisiting their career path later in life as they realize that they want to merge the life they’ve been living with something that’s a bit more sustainable.

 

Blake Boles 39:08

So the work that you do, which is not climbing related, the graphic design, leading clinics. You told me that you work with a Seattle nonprofit doing STEM summer camps for young women. How much purpose does that give you? Is it more of a means to an end to allow you to keep doing the climbing thing, or is it purposeful in itself?

 

Brittany Goris 39:36

It’s definitely purposeful in itself. I work for the coolest company. It’s called Girls Rock Math, and they do STEM -based summer camps for girls in elementary school meant to empower girls at the age when it proves that women internalize the construct that math is for boys and artists for girls and lose confidence in math and science.

 

Brittany Goris 40:02

And so it’s meant to make math and other STEM empowering, fun, and interesting. And so it to eventually lessen the STEM gap, and we provide them with female role models in math and science and teach them about the gender gap and all of these things.

 

Brittany Goris 40:26

But all through the lens of things that girls that age are interested in. There’s a ton of different themes, everything from the ocean, to spies, to fashion, to crafts, to all of this, but through a mathematical lens and all of these skills that they’re not going to learn until later in school.

 

Brittany Goris 40:47

Just concepts like there’s an outdoor camp where they learn about the Fibonacci sequence, and then they go find all of these things in nature that have it, stuff like that. So because this organization is so powerful and does such amazing things for the world, even on days when I don’t feel like working my work has so much meaning.

 

Brittany Goris 41:11

And then in this incredible organization, I get to do something I’m really passionate about, which is make art. I’m a graphic designer. It’s the coolest thing. I just get to draw my job and create things.

 

Brittany Goris 41:28

And that is a thing I need an outlet for anyway. I need to scratch the creative itch. And if I weren’t doing my job, I would be making art some other way. And so it’s really cool that I get to use that skill and fulfill that need and have it give something back to the world.

 

Brittany Goris 41:45

So yeah, the answer is yes, it’s very meaningful to me.

 

Blake Boles 41:49

All right, well, let’s flip it upside down. Tell me how your life is not currently working. Like, in what way might it feel unsustainable or something is like severely missing? Cause there’s a lot of pretty stuff that we’re talking about, but there must be these dark days too.

 

Brittany Goris 42:10

I think the one thing that’s really hard to find and to sustain on the road is romantic relationships. In a lot of ways, it’s really easy to meet people, but it’s also really hard to build anything long -term because everyone is so independent and so transient that either you are spending all of your time together, which is really problematic.

 

Brittany Goris 42:41

You park next to each other. You live in the same van. You’re sharing this tiny space, and that inevitably always blows up. Or you’re spending really long periods of time doing long distance if someone’s got to go work or you don’t have the same places you want to be, or you just end up in a lot of situational short -term things, or you just don’t really pursue it at all, and everybody takes a different approach.

 

Brittany Goris 43:14

And sometimes people make it work, and you see things really awesome come out of meeting partners on the road. But that’s a thing that I’ve always had a really hard time with, and honestly, I can’t say I had an easier time of it when I lived in one place, so it doesn’t feel that different.

 

Brittany Goris 43:32

But it is a thing that has some inherent major struggles with living on the road. And I would say the other answer to that question would be, and I think you maybe had another question about concerns and things I worry about on the road, and that would be health.

 

Brittany Goris 43:57

And I live a lifestyle that definitely presents a strong possibility of injury, and if I were to be in a situation where, say I broke my leg and I couldn’t drive, that would be a huge issue. Or say I had to have a friend of mine who used to be a dirtbag, but now he lives in a house, broke his collarbone last year, mountain biking, and couldn’t do anything for months.

 

Brittany Goris 44:32

Or even when COVID hit, it was really ostracizing to be anywhere that your license plate didn’t look like you were a resident, because people were worried about their health. Just like health as an umbrella topic, but with more, I think more specifically with a focus on like, if I were to get really sick or really injured, being in a van is not really a great place to be for that.

 

Brittany Goris 45:06

And that, it’s not a thing I worry about a whole ton, just because I’ve gotten by on a lot of luck and that haven’t, I’ve had a lot of injuries, but none of, well I’ve been out on the road, none of them have required the sort of stability to recover from that I have.

 

Brittany Goris 45:23

Like I’ve always had what I needed, but that’s definitely a thing that maybe would present some really tough situations were it to happen.

 

Blake Boles 45:35

And yeah, extreme injury or sickness is tough for anyone. Is your emergency ripcord like going to stay with friends or family in someone’s spare room? Do you have a plan for that?

 

Brittany Goris 45:51

Nope, I don’t have a plan. But it would probably be something like that. And that’s, again, where a bit of the privilege I do have comes into play because I could very easily go stay with either of my parents.

 

Brittany Goris 46:07

And I also have a lot of friends I could go stay with. And so I don’t feel like I would ever be in a situation where I’d be screwed. It would more be that I would end up in a situation where I’d be very unhappy because I don’t like staying at my parents’ house for a long period of time.

 

Blake Boles 46:27

The mental health. concern might be greater.

 

Brittany Goris 46:30

Yeah, yeah, you know I it’s there’s never like yeah, there’s not it’s not a situation where I’d be like I just don’t know what I do. It’d be like yeah, I know what I’d do, but I wouldn’t like it

 

Blake Boles 46:43

Just to stick on the health topic for a second, do you feel like all the time that you get to spend outdoors using your body, uh, just yeah, like stretching, moving, climbing, uh, swimming, being in sunlight, do you feel like that is a good health insurance policy just by itself?

 

Blake Boles 47:05

Do you, if you compare yourself to other people, your age and their health challenges, uh, how much of it do you feel comes from lifestyle? It comes from being inside, sitting a lot, uh, not being able to do the stuff that you get to do.

 

Brittany Goris 47:24

Well, as far as mental health goes, I really can only speak for myself. I would hate to presume to know what’s going on in anyone else’s head. But I also, you know, I do have a college degree in recreation and leisure.

 

Brittany Goris 47:39

And so I do know a little bit about how the general outdoors and recreation specifically has a strong benefit mentally. And I can certainly say that it has a direct correlation with my mental health.

 

Brittany Goris 47:58

And, you know, I think you could make some generalized statements about the healing effects of nature. And I think that is certainly, you know, when I said earlier that it felt like my life began when I started living on the road, that was certainly a part of it was that just in my years, pretty much all of my years living in Seattle.

 

Brittany Goris 48:24

And I lived in Bellingham before that. And I think it was the worst in Seattle. I really struggled with anxiety. And it was so much better when I live on the road. And I’m outside all the time. And when I was living in the concrete jungle, it was really bad for a while.

 

Brittany Goris 48:47

And it wasn’t based off of anything except just this general unease about life. And, you know, I just felt anxious, not about anything in particular. I just felt this just need to make changes that just things weren’t right.

 

Brittany Goris 49:05

And then I had to fix them and I didn’t know how. And I don’t really ever feel that way anymore. And I certainly, you know, I still like, you know, like right now, I’m in my friend’s driveway. I’m not out in some beautiful campground, although her driveway is pretty beautiful.

 

Brittany Goris 49:23

But, you know, I just last weekend, I saw the brightest shooting star of my life while out at a desert party out in the middle of nowhere. And there’s just so many things like that where you wake up and you open your door.

 

Brittany Goris 49:36

And the first thing you see is this backdrop of cliffs and mountains and lakes in the ocean. And it feels like you’re living inside of a postcard and, you know, how could you ever deny that that is not going to be brighter than waking up under fluorescent lights and stepping outside onto like a busy sidewalk and then sitting in traffic for an hour?

 

Brittany Goris 50:01

Like, you know, no one on earth would make the argument that one of those is probably a little more conducive to good mental health than the other.

 

Blake Boles 50:16

I was actually thinking of physical health when I asked that question, but I agree with everything you just said.

 

Brittany Goris 50:23

Oh, physical health. Um, yeah, I mean, exercise a lot. I’m a professional athlete. I think physical health is like pretty paramount to me feeling like I’m doing the right stuff in life.

 

Blake Boles 50:40

Uh, what were some worries that you had in the beginning of this journey, like in your early twenties, perhaps, that you just don’t have anymore? Was there anything you really obsessed over or had anxiety about? And then once you actually got exposed to it, you realized, Oh, this is extremely manageable.

 

Brittany Goris 50:59

I can think of a couple things. I remember being really intimidated by doing long drives by myself when I first started living on the road. And I’d only ever done road trips with friends where we had a couple people to share the drive.

 

Brittany Goris 51:16

And I think that sort of reflects also a greater trend that I used to worry about ending up alone in general, just going somewhere and not knowing anybody or being somewhere and everyone I know packing up and moving on and me not going to the same places and having to start over and having to make new friends everywhere I went.

 

Brittany Goris 51:42

And that sort of those just like general times when you would find yourself alone, they sort of because a lot of times they would appear open -ended, you know, like, oh, I’m going to go somewhere and like, how long is it going to be before I make friends again?

 

Brittany Goris 52:05

Like, I don’t have an answer to that. I could make friends my first day somewhere, or I could struggle for a little while and end up spending a lot of time alone. And that was definitely a concern because the social aspect of life is like an element of stability.

 

Brittany Goris 52:25

And that, you know, being unpredictable is a thing that I would stress out over, especially when I was still building confidence in my own social skills and my ability to make friends, having come from a background of not having all that many when I was young.

 

Brittany Goris 52:46

And now I know people everywhere I go. And if I don’t, I love the process of meeting new people. And I also have learned to really relish in my alone time and cherish the times when I don’t have people around because I have people around a lot.

 

Brittany Goris 53:01

And so I’ve both found acceptance and peace in the times when I am on my own. And I no longer worry about where I’m going and who’s going to be there because I just trust that it’s going to be fine. And then I would say that the unlike in a totally different topic, the other thing that I used to worry about would be car trouble and being able to deal with it if it happens.

 

Brittany Goris 53:43

And, you know, and actually, I still worry about it. I still stress out about it. Just like the idea of breaking down somewhere where it’s very difficult to get what you need to get back on the road.

 

Brittany Goris 53:56

It’s happened to me a lot. I’ve gotten really, really stuck in the sand, completely alone, really far away from cell service, stuff like that. Or breaking down on a mountain pass in the middle of the night, or with no cell phone service, just stuff like that.

 

Blake Boles 54:19

And how did you get out of those situations?

 

Brittany Goris 54:23

Uh, you know, it’s always different, but just asking for help usually. Um, and I think like the more times I’ve dealt with unpredictable car situations, the more I’ve started to believe in the things I try and convince myself that, you know, you can handle it no matter what happens.

 

Brittany Goris 54:43

Because like, of course you can. You never, you’re never going to like, you’ll figure it out. And I, I believe that more than I used to that, just that I, I have, you know, I may not, I may not like know the answer, but I have the skills to find the answer if I end up in those, just any sort of unpredictable situation like that.

 

Blake Boles 55:08

So last question, Brittany, what is coming up next? What’s on the radar? What are you excited for?

 

Brittany Goris 55:15

Well, so I currently am doing a thing that I’ve spent pretty much my entire year building up towards. So I’m really excited to be in the moment right now, to be where I am. I’m in one of my favorite places, going after something that’s been my biggest dream for a really long time.

 

Brittany Goris 55:40

And I’ve worked really hard to come back from an injury and to be here now so if you’d asked me any time in the last year, pretty much what I was looking forward to, I would say this. So right now I’m just looking forward to enjoying the present.

 

Brittany Goris 55:58

And you know, beyond that is really hard to say because it depends on how this fall goes. But I’m also I made a commitment to myself to leave the United States during the winter every year. And that was because the winter on the road in the US is a bit of a bummer compared to if you’re able to go somewhere else just because, you know, the sun goes down at 4 p .m.

 

Brittany Goris 56:29

And it’s cold and it’s dark and the weather sucks. And there’s only so many places that are good to be. And I’ve already been to all of them. You know, like a great example is Bishop, California, which is a climbing destination in the Sierra.

 

Brittany Goris 56:44

And I have been going there for like, oh, my God, like 14 years now since like long before I lived on the road. And it’s kind of like the place. Everyone’s like, just go to Bishop. And like I have been to Bishop and I really thrive off of going to new places.

 

Brittany Goris 56:58

And so I made a bit of a commitment to myself to travel internationally because I’ve spent so much time exploring the US and so little exploring the big wide world in the winter is the perfect time to do it.

 

Brittany Goris 57:13

So I’m really looking forward to continuing to chase good weather to new places and experience new things and then return back to more familiar things and enjoy those as well.

 

Blake Boles 57:28

Wonderful and if anyone wants to follow this journey or read your writing, which is excellent. How do they do that?

 

Brittany Goris 57:38

I’m most active on Instagram at GORISB, G -O -R -I -S -B, and that is where I then link to all other places that I appear. My website is britneygoris .com, and it’s more of a blog than a website, but it also has links to like every podcast I’ve ever been on or video I’ve ever been in.

 

Brittany Goris 58:01

And she talks a bit about my climbing accomplishments and can link you to my sponsors and all that. And you can read my writing, and then my Instagram is like where I tell like shorter stories about my life and my climbing, I share my art, I share links to things I think are funny or cute or important or all that.

 

Brittany Goris 58:26

And then if anyone ever needs to contact me, those avenues are pretty easy ways to get a hold of me or to just follow in my journey.

 

Blake Boles 58:38

Brittany Goris, thanks so much for being on the show.

 

Brittany Goris 58:41

Ah, my pleasure.