Diana Grijalva is a 42-year-old outdoor educator, international guide, and almost-astrophysicist who hasn’t paid rent since 2008. (@diana.grigri)
Diana explains how she lives on seasonal wages, why she’d rather sleep in a van or hostel bunk than clock 40 hours a week, and how flexibility lets her drop everything to show up for family when it matters.
We get into her peak dirtbag years—dumpster diving, living on $7,000 a year, breaking ice off her tent in Joshua Tree—and how she’s sustained the lifestyle into her forties. Diana shares her favorite climbing hubs from Mexico to Turkey, the grind and charm of hostel life, and why she sees most jobs as “stealing people’s lives.”
She also talks about the unglamorous math behind dirtbagging: stretching cheap food and used gear, picking work that covers the basics, and saying no to anything that eats into her freedom. She lights up describing her rotation of winter haunts—Joshua Tree, Red Rocks, Moab, Potrero Chico, Greece, Spain, Sri Lanka, India, Morocco—each one a way of outsmarting the cold while deepening her love for new cultures.
Full transcript: dirtbagrich.com/diana
Recorded in July 2025.
Transcript
This is an AI-generated transcript. Typos and mistakes exist!
Blake Boles (00:01)
Diana Grijalva, welcome to Dirtbag Rich.
Diana Grijalva (00:04)
Thank you.
Blake Boles (00:07)
If I’m an American who loves the outdoors, but hates the winter and the cold, where are some places I can go? Where are places that you have gone to escape Northern Hemisphere winter?
Diana Grijalva (00:11)
I’ve gone all over the world, but if you want to stay in the US, I feel like the Southwest is really cool, like Joshua Tree. ⁓ I’m usually rock climbing, so I’d go to Red Rocks outside of Vegas. ⁓ But it’s also nice if you’re not rock climbing, just to be in these places in Joshua Tree.
I spent a lot of time outside of Moab. It does get cold at night, but it’s like really beautiful during the day. But again, I’m heavily influenced by my need to rock climb there. But generally, I would say just leave the US and go. Oh my God, you can go anywhere. Southeast Asia is super easy, but then you have hordes of like, you know, kids just drinking too much.
Blake Boles (01:00)
Yeah, tell me more. Where do I go if I want to spend less money and be warm?
Diana Grijalva (01:14)
You can go to Morocco, anywhere in the Mediterranean is probably like the loveliest place to go. Like it could be Turkey, it could be Italy, it could be Greece, it could be anywhere there. ⁓ You could go to India is quite nice, Sri Lanka, ⁓ anywhere along the equator is gonna be wonderful.
Blake Boles (01:38)
Based upon physics, Blake, anywhere along the equator will be warmer. We’re going to get to your physics background, Diana, but first tell me where have you gone to in the winter the most? Like what’s your repeat destination?
Diana Grijalva (01:41)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I have, like I’ll be like really into a place and I’ll do that for a few years and then I kind of like shift over to something else. ⁓ I started going to Mexico, like northern Mexico, to a place called Petro Chico outside of Monterrey, Mexico.
And that was after spending a lot of time in the Southwest, but I was just kind of getting tired of the really cold winters. It’s actually not cold during the day, but it’s cold at night, which if you’re in a tent, you know, that can get a little annoying. But ⁓ after Mexico, I started going to Southeast Asia and spent a lot of time in Thailand and Laos and those spots. And then I started going ⁓ to more like South Asia. Like I spent some time in like India. And then I started doing a little bit of Europe, like Mediterranean area, like Spain and Greece, also like Chile, Argentina, and then I also did some like traveling in Africa, so it could be like East Africa, North Africa, Southern Africa. Yeah, they’re all lovely.
Blake Boles (02:59)
Maybe I should ask you how many winters you’ve actually spent. How many complete winters have you spent like in a place in a wintery place?
Diana Grijalva (03:08)
I don’t know ever if I have maybe Maybe like in 2008 I worked a winter Like some of the winter not even all the winter some of that winter I was in Mexico But like into December and then I came back work in January. I was in Big Bear, California ⁓ But that’s it
Blake Boles (03:29)
at a ski resort.
Diana Grijalva (03:30)
No, I was working at ⁓ a place called Astro Camp and then I also worked at this environmental science school there. ⁓ But it did snow a lot and that was like my first experience with that and I had no idea what to do.
Blake Boles (03:44)
We’re going to get to the many overlaps between your life and my life. I also worked at Astro Camp a few years before you, but I want to start with a more vulnerable question here, Diana, which is what’s wrong with you? Like, why can’t you just stay put and stick around one place for a while? Why are you always jetting off to some other place?
Diana Grijalva (03:45)
Yeah, yeah. Sure. What’s wrong with me? Because it’s so much more fun to do that. I’m always like, what’s wrong with everybody else actually? I was like, think it, yeah. mean, it’s, you’re like, why? It seems like everyone else is a sucker, you know? Like, just kinda like, yeah. Like, maybe they believed, like, you should do this. And I just don’t have maybe the same will to like,
Blake Boles (04:08)
⁓ touche.
That’s kind of derogatory. What do you mean by that?
Diana Grijalva (04:33)
I think I have like a strong anti-conformist. Like I’m really like critical of that. Like a pushback, like I take a look at it maybe a little more. I’m like, why is everyone doing this? And then I’m like, that doesn’t seem to make that much sense to me. I’m just not gonna do that. So.
Blake Boles (04:51)
Well, you know,
there’s two forms of anti-conformity. There’s just this knee-jerk, if everyone else is doing it, I will do the opposite. But then what you just described is you took a close look at this life, this way of living, and you said, I actually think that won’t work with me. And that’s a bit more like reason-based, a bit more thoughtful, less knee-jerk. So which is it?
Diana Grijalva (04:55)
Mm-hmm.
huh.
Yeah, like I
think I have like maybe my knee-jerk reaction is to be like, why is everyone doing this? But then when I like look at it and think about it, which I actually like think about it a lot because I have a lot of time available. But I’m still like, yeah, I just I don’t think I want it. It’s so much more fun to not do that and not just fun, but also just like fulfilling. And I just see a lot of people just kind of like going through the motions and robbed of their time.
And I think time is just like the most precious thing in the world, you know, so.
Blake Boles (05:44)
Hmm. Yeah.
So when you say, I see people doing that, going through the motions, give me your, give me your vision in your head of what that is.
Diana Grijalva (05:50)
Yeah.
Yeah, and I do honestly, like I think about also that I have this like very list, like kind of storyline in my head of this is what people’s lives are like. And I am also critical of that. So I do like kind of revisit this and then tell myself like not everyone’s life is like that. It doesn’t have to be like that. But something that I think is quite common is that people I think are looking for security and the way that you get security in the U.S. is by working a 40 hour a week job. And that just drains so much energy out
folks and they’re going to work, coming home, they’re tired, they don’t have energy to do more things after work, they’re exhausted on the weekend, maybe they’re quite adventurous or they have sports or they have hobbies, but even that it just seems like you’re really struggling to have time for yourself and to do what you want to do and outside of the energy that you put into work and that just it’s like what am I working for?
Blake Boles (06:54)
How do you respond to people who say life’s not about once you leave childhood, life is not about doing what you want to do. It’s about serving other people, fulfilling responsibilities and obligations, ⁓ either helping out family members like siblings, parents, or kids. ⁓ It’s not about you.
Diana Grijalva (06:59)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Yeah.
totally, and I completely agree. I completely agree. But it’s like, I have so much more flexibility to do those things. Like now it’s awesome because like my grandpa passed away.
Blake Boles (07:15)
How do you respond to that?
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Diana Grijalva (07:26)
last winter and I was able to just like go home, you know? And then I was able to fly for the funeral, be there. I was able to fly home and help my family empty out their house. I’m able to like be places at holidays, go and do things, see friends, chop around and see the people that I love and spend time with them. And then I have the flexibility and time to do that. So I just go to them. And yeah, my uncle and aunt passed away. I also was able to like show up and help the family kind of like just be
there. So actually I think it makes it a lot easier to do those things, to care for the people that you love and to be responsible and be supportive.
Blake Boles (08:00)
Hmm.
Hmm. Hmm.
Hmm. Yeah. Geographic flexibility plus time flexibility and having some money saved up ⁓ equals I can be there for people when they need me. ⁓ Yeah. What do you see? What do you see among your, you know, you and I are both in our early forties. What do you see among people around our age in terms of just personal energy and stress levels? ⁓ Maybe you can talk a bit about how
Diana Grijalva (08:14)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and the energy, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Blake Boles (08:39)
how this has evolved for you. I’m sure this has changed over the years.
Diana Grijalva (08:43)
Yeah, I think especially people that are my age, they kind of get like locked into like, okay, now I have the house. Now I have a job that I’ve like, secure in. I have a lot of responsibility. I’ve been in this job for a while, so I’m kind of moving up. They’re like pretty happy with their position and their company and their job, but there’s just a lot less time and a lot more responsibility and generally a lot more stress. ⁓
And they’re just seem like they’re just kind of like going through the grind and just trying to keep their head afloat, you know? I mean, some of my, I have a lot of different friends that I keep up with ⁓ that live very traditional lives. And some of them are like.
love it and some of them are just kind of like I just am in it now and now I can’t really get out of it you know but even the ones I love it it’s just it’s still like you don’t you have to choose to spend most of your energy and time on on work and if
Blake Boles (09:33)
Hmm
Diana Grijalva (09:43)
I think I would just like to choose to spend my energy on time, like seeing the people that I wanna see and doing the things that I wanna do and work is in there, but I don’t want it to be like the main focus and I don’t want it to be like, in my eyes it feels like it’s stealing people’s lives. Like you’re like just giving it away, you know? And I’m like to who, why? ⁓
Blake Boles (09:57)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Diana Grijalva (10:07)
It’s like the most precious thing in your one life. And you don’t know how much more time you have left, you know? So, yeah.
Blake Boles (10:08)
⁓ gosh.
This is true. All right. Let’s, let’s get concrete. Let’s zoom back in time. Uh, were you raised super nonconformist? Did you come from a very countercultural family? Uh, did you grow up on a hippie farm in the middle of nowhere, you know, raised by some cult members? Where’d you come from Diana?
Diana Grijalva (10:36)
Oh my God, no, 100
% no, very traditional. Yeah, no, my parents are definitely like very regular. Like I grew up in a house on a street where all the other houses look very similar. My parents worked very hard to give me like very much like a normal middle-class life. And they worked really hard to have like very standard jobs and…
just raise a family and go on your standard vacations and send your kids to college. very, just yeah, standard would be the word. Yeah, just a regular house on a regular street in a regular city.
Blake Boles (11:19)
Where did you grow up?
Diana Grijalva (11:21)
I grew up in El Paso, Texas, which is on the border of Mexico and is very, I guess, like culturally maybe different from a lot of other cities in the US because it is on the Mexican border and mostly Mexican American. But it is also just a big city, you know, so. Yeah.
Blake Boles (11:41)
All right,
and tell me how you started to transition out of this normal American middle-class upbringing. What was your gateway into the other world?
Diana Grijalva (11:50)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think I always just maybe had this like questioning critical attitude and or just like outlook, you know, I think that’s just maybe just like part of my personality. ⁓ But actually, my sister is a little bit like that, too. So maybe it’s something about her upbringing that is just like not as obvious to me. ⁓ But yeah, when.
I went to school, I had transferred schools and then I had transferred to a school in New Mexico and it was a very small school in a very small town and I took a rock climbing class to meet more people as an elective. And then through that, I met all these like, know, dirtbags, people that were like living in houses that were like condemned or, you know, just very frugal lives. So, and as it was, you kind of do that anyways, cause you’re a college student.
But it was also kind of just like really fun. Like, okay, now we’re going climbing and camping and now we’re exploring all these different places. And I started going to Pacharro Chico in Mexico, which was a really cool way to like be exposed to a lot of different climbers that were going there at the time. And I started meeting all these different people with different lifestyles that lived like.
a pretty seasonal life and I was like, wow, that’s really cool. And I had actually, even before I was exposed to that, when I was younger, I always thought it would be really cool to live in a van and I thought it was, I was like, man, I wish I had been like a teenager, early twenties, in the sixties, I definitely would have lived in a van and traveled. And I just was like, man, I really missed that opportunity being born in the wrong decade. And then when I was exposed to all these other people, I was like, oh my God, people are actually still doing this. And I had no idea.
Blake Boles (13:22)
Uhhhh…
Diana Grijalva (13:34)
you know? And I was like, that is so cool! And so I guess I just kind of like got into the more climbing thing, but also just seeing that it was possible and like that other people were still doing this and that there was like all these other alternative ways to live. That exposure kind of just like opened up like a whole world for me.
Blake Boles (13:53)
Hmm. I think it was around this moment in college. ⁓ you read a book, which was also a very important book for me. Vagabonding by Rolf Potts. What happened to you after that?
Diana Grijalva (14:00)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Well, mean, so yeah, after spending a lot of time in school, like all my weekends and summers, like kind of like wandering around the state of New Mexico and going back to that climbing area in Mexico pretty frequently, actually.
I just was like, okay, I knew this world existed. I had asked people lots of questions. So I saved up money, because I was always working through school, and was like, I’m going to go travel. ⁓ This is something I always wanted to do. I’m going to do it. I saved money. I can do it. And so I looked online for resources. ⁓ And I ordered that book. And then I read about it. And I was like, cool. Now I learned how to do the thing. You just got to get out there and do it. ⁓
Blake Boles (14:44)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Diana Grijalva (14:48)
So
it was just kind of like, I don’t know, guess I’m, I just kind of decide I’m gonna do this thing. Now I gotta figure out how to do the thing. And I read the book and I was like, cool, just buy a plane ticket and go. So I did that, but actually my first, and yeah, I went to South America and I was like, I’m just gonna go and I’ll see how long I stayed there. I only bought a one way ticket. ⁓ But I had a really hard time and kind of hated it. So that first trip, it was like,
Felt very lonely and I wasn’t really sure how to do things and I guess I had a hard time meeting people or connecting with people and I missed my partner at the time that was still in New Mexico and I was ultimately really sad and then I knew two people that were in South America and I ended up meeting up with them and then just coming back a lot sooner than I expected which felt kind of like a failure at the time.
Blake Boles (15:28)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Diana Grijalva (15:48)
But I was like, I guess I’ll just see what, I don’t know. I was like, I just tried it. I did the thing, I tried it, I didn’t like it, that’s fine. But after I came back and I like got back into my life in New Mexico, I was there for a while and then I worked, got a job full time and I did it for like, I don’t know, three months. And I hated that even more.
Blake Boles (16:14)
You’re like, can dislike
some things, but other things I hate. So.
Diana Grijalva (16:18)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I had a
hard time traveling, which I thought I would love. And so that was kind of a, I was just like, wow, I thought that was going to be the thing that was really cool. And actually that was really difficult. But then working full time was even more difficult. And I was working in this lab with all these middle aged, boring electrical engineer men. And I was like, my God, this sucks. ⁓ So then that just kind of caused like this early life crisis, you know.
Blake Boles (16:45)
quarter life crisis.
Get it out of the way. ⁓
Diana Grijalva (16:48)
Yeah,
but I’m very glad it happened. I’m actually glad I was that miserable because it really forced me to look deeply and ask myself some really serious questions, which ultimately permanently changed the course of my life.
Blake Boles (16:51)
Yeah.
Hmm. But my version of that was starting the Pacific crest trail and thinking I would through hike it and definitely love it. And after two weeks, I was like, I actually really don’t like this and I’m going to leave right now. Yeah.
Diana Grijalva (17:12)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
and I was like, okay, I tried it. It’s hard. I don’t know. Maybe it’s not for me. I mean, it’s just being honest with yourself, you know, so.
Blake Boles (17:24)
Yeah. Yeah. I remember a few summers ago, ⁓ being in the mountains west of Lake Tahoe, where the Pacific crest trail goes and seen a number of, I was on a kind of backpacking trip around Lake Tahoe and I was going the opposite direction of most of the through hikers. And a lot of these PCT through hikers just look like they were like clocking it in, like they were going to their day job. Like they looked pretty checked out or just like, you know,
Diana Grijalva (17:33)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
yeah. ⁓ for sure. Yeah.
Blake Boles (17:52)
earbuds in and of course, you you’re not going to look like you’re enjoying hiking every moment of the day, but it did feel to me like, I wonder how many people doing this are just completing it because they started it. And the idea of getting off the trail is not in their heads.
Diana Grijalva (18:06)
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. think it’s like they just don’t want to quit. They just want to say they did the thing. But yeah, I mean, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So I just kind of like, I guess, let go of that expectation because I mean, at least I had the wherewithal when I started traveling to be like, OK, Diana, let’s just see what happens and see how it goes. And then I was like, this is going badly.
Blake Boles (18:18)
Or it’s too embarrassing to stop once you’ve started, you told everyone you’re gonna do this.
I’m
⁓
Diana Grijalva (18:39)
We can just go home now,
it’s fine.
Blake Boles (18:42)
Tell me a bit about what you studied and when you flirted with that normal job after coming back from South America. Just a little bit about your, the brief moment where you almost had like a normal job and a normal life.
Diana Grijalva (18:56)
Yeah, so yeah, I studied astrophysics because it’s the coolest thing ever. And yeah.
Blake Boles (19:02)
Yes, a fellow astrophysics major for
a while here.
Diana Grijalva (19:06)
It’s, it’s yeah. When I mean, when I picked a major for college, I was just like, I actually didn’t even want to go to school, but my parents were like, you need to go to college. Like they really pushed education was extremely important. ⁓ and very, which, I mean, I agree it’s important, but I wanted to take like a year off. They were not down with that. So I was like, okay, well if I’m being forced to go to school, I should just study whatever I think would be really cool to study that I can’t really study on my own. You know, it’s like, be really hard to actually learn.
on
your own. And because there’s always other things I was really interested in, ⁓ like cultural anthropology was the other contender. ⁓
And but I was like, actually, cultural anthropology, you can like read a lot of books on your own and learn about it on your own. You don’t have to go get a degree in it. And so I was like, actually astrophysics is the other thing that I was like really obsessed with since I was a little kid. And so I was like, that is a lot harder to learn on your own. So I was just being really pragmatic. So I was like, I if I want to learn something and have to go to school for four years to do it, I’m to just like learn about the coolest thing ever. I’ll just major in astrophysics. I didn’t have any kind of like long term plan.
Blake Boles (20:00)
Hmm.
Diana Grijalva (20:16)
or necessarily want to work in it, but I assumed I would, you know? So I was like, I’ll just get a degree in that. ⁓ So that’s what I got a degree in, although it was a little bit of a roundabout thing. Took a little while, but I did finish, and that was good. And then I had a research thing, because I went to where I ended up finishing school was in New Mexico, and they had a national radio astronomy observatory center on campus.
Blake Boles (20:16)
Mm-hmm.
Diana Grijalva (20:42)
which ran the VLA, it’s a big radio telescope in New Mexico. And I had a…
Blake Boles (20:47)
which
I learned about through the movie Contact with Jodie Foster. Great movie, yes.
Diana Grijalva (20:49)
Yes, exactly. And it looks
just like that. Yeah, except they’re not actually listening to anything. I was like, that’s a little funny thing they did there. yeah, so I had worked building electronic stuff, just kind of putting together the hardware for the VLA while I was in college as work. And then I did a research thing, which was really cool, analyzing a bunch of data. That was really cool.
Blake Boles (20:55)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Diana Grijalva (21:18)
But the research is really just like programming. And so I was like, OK, it’s cool. I’m learning programming. And it was a really great program for students, because then you’re hanging out with all these astrophysicists, and you’re presenting in conferences, you’re bumping heads with people. it was actually very.
Blake Boles (21:22)
Yeah. Yeah.
Diana Grijalva (21:37)
a great program to really get in there and understand what astrophysicists does and get you exposed to all that. But I just was like, this is so boring. I was like, I’d just be sitting there programming and looking out the window the whole time. And we didn’t have a strict schedule. And you could come late and leave early, which I did. And then after I went traveling, I came back and I just got my job working.
Blake Boles (21:48)
Hahaha
Diana Grijalva (22:03)
that I had in college earlier, which was just building the hardware, not actually doing the research, but building the hardware, which was a little bit more, at least it was hands-on. And then they hired me full-time. They were like, yeah, we’d love to have you. We’ll hire you full-time. You can work your way up, blah, blah, blah. But then even doing that, working with electrical engineers, I was like, I just hated every moment of it. I’d come home and cry. And so, I mean, like I said, I think I did that for…
Blake Boles (22:28)
Hmm.
Diana Grijalva (22:32)
maybe three or four months. And then I was just like, I just can’t do this. And so I started spending all my free time looking online for other jobs.
I was just like, okay, if you’re not, and and I also had already applied to grad school. Cause I was like, you have to go to grad school. You have to go get a PhD. So I already took the test, paid the fees, got the recommendation letters, sent the applications in, was just waiting for an acceptance letter. And I realized I was dreading getting that acceptance letter. And I was like, what am I even doing? Like if I’m dreading getting accepted, like that’s what I’m supposed to want. You know? And I was like, if I’m dreading this,
Blake Boles (23:04)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Diana Grijalva (23:12)
and then how many more years? An average person takes a decade to get a PhD in astrophysics, you know? And I was like, what the hell am I doing? And I just saw my professors and the other astrophysicists are always stressed and trying to publish. There’s no funding. The people that I did my research project under had went to Harvard or MIT, and they were fighting for jobs. And I was just like, this just seems like some kind of rat race. And they’re just like, conning you into this, you know? So then I was just like, OK, I don’t want this. That is clear.
Blake Boles (23:31)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Diana Grijalva (23:42)
All right, have some clarity. If I don’t want this, what do I want? So I really like dug deep and was just like, okay, Diana, if you could do anything and you knew you would be successful, there’s no fear of failure. You knew you 100 % would be successful and you knew 100 %
you’d be able to financially support yourself. So there’s no fear of, I guess, security, lack of security. What would I do? And so I had to really think about it. And then I was like, if I was honest with myself, I was like, really just want to work outdoors. I want to be a guide and work outdoors and lead trips like these people that I met when I was in Petrochico. But I had no skills, actually, to do that. But now I know what I want to do.
Blake Boles (24:07)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm… Mm-hmm.
Diana Grijalva (24:29)
And I was like, and if the only reason I’m not doing that is because I’m scared of failure, like that’s just like not a good enough reason for me, you know? And so I was like, okay, I know what I want to do. That’s a moment of clarity. That’s what I needed. So then I just like looked for jobs because I was like, okay, break it down into little steps. Like what, like what skills do you have? What job can I get that works towards that like greater goal?
Blake Boles (24:37)
Hmm. Hmm.
Diana Grijalva (24:57)
So then that’s how I found that job at Astro Camp. And I was like, cool, this is like a hands-on, this is outside. I’m totally qualified to do this. And I applied for that job and I got it. And I was like, great. And then I quit the job at NRAO and I moved to California. And that was like the start of my new life.
Blake Boles (25:01)
Mm-hmm.
my gosh. Did you enjoy ⁓ working at AstroCamp and how long did you work there?
Diana Grijalva (25:22)
I absolutely loved it actually. Like it was the coolest thing ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
Blake Boles (25:26)
It really combines everything you’re talking about. You get to, you know, tell stories about astronomy and the evolution of the solar system. You get to work with simple telescopes. You show them the powers of 10 movie, do the ropes courses,
some light hiking, smash some pennies with, you know, frozen with liquid nitrogen. They love it.
Diana Grijalva (25:44)
yeah,
it was actually really cool. It was like the coolest thing ever. And when I got hired, I was hired as like the assistant climbing instructor. So then I was just going out, because during the summer for summer camp, so I was like, this is literally perfect. Yeah, no, it was great. And the first year I was working there, it was all sorts of different people. A lot of them didn’t have the astronomy physics background.
Blake Boles (25:53)
Hmm.
Yeah, that’s right.
Diana Grijalva (26:09)
But they were all pretty outgoing, adventurous people, so was a really cool group of folks that I was working with. ⁓ And then the last semester I was there, they started hiring only physics and astronomy degree holders, which really changed the instructor pool.
And then I got bored again. And I was like, actually, I think I just am very sensitive to the people that are around me. Like just need like, you know, good energy. And so I was like, actually, this is not doing it for me anymore. ⁓ So then I left. But I mean, all the hands on stuff, you know, was just like so cool. And I love teaching. ⁓
Blake Boles (26:29)
Hmm. Hmm.
Yeah.
Diana Grijalva (26:50)
I had worked at a science museum in El Paso when I transferred universities in between. I took some time off. So I had worked at a hands-on science museum already. yeah, guess it just, I was like, this is actually hits like my knee, my like interest in science and love for people and teaching. So I thoroughly enjoyed it. But in the end, I was just like, all right, now it’s time to go. So.
Blake Boles (27:12)
Yeah.
Yeah. I feel like a few years in the outdoor education sector is sufficient. And, you told me previously that you kind of moved down the hill to, to Bujum, another outdoor education provider in the area. Yeah. And, and so, ⁓ for you, what, what made it seem like continuing to do this kind of outdoor education, like weekly programs with public school groups, what made this seem like, like it had a natural endpoint for you?
Diana Grijalva (27:28)
huh, exactly, yeah.
Uh-huh.
Well, I think it was just more like a transitional job, you know, because I was like, OK, Astro Camp, I have the astronomy physics background. You don’t need any like certifications. I don’t have the expedition experience. So that was just like my step to outdoor hands on work, working with like students. But it was still a job that I was qualified for. And then like Bujum was like, OK, the next step. OK, now we’re working towards like outdoor courses, more like technical skills, but they’re providing
a lot of training also, I’m getting a lot of experience. And then it was just kind of like, okay, and the next job I’m gonna try to get is leading backpacking courses. And then I made my way into guiding. So it was all just kind of like little steps towards my ultimate goal, which was to be kind of like leading expeditions and guiding rocks and I don’t know, something, I don’t know. That was just kind of like my end sort of like where I’m aiming for.
Blake Boles (28:32)
Yeah.
Yeah.
And just to spoil the punchline here, you did achieve that, right? That’s you’ve been guiding and making money doing that for quite a while now.
Diana Grijalva (28:49)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah,
which kind of blows my mind sometimes that I actually did it. But I mean, I guess it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it actually worked. The whole plan worked. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Blake Boles (28:57)
Yeah, not just for a few years, like really you’ve been able to fund a really cool life by doing really cool work.
The plan, I’m making air quotes right
now.
Diana Grijalva (29:13)
Yeah, I know, know, people think that I don’t plan because of the lifestyle that I I was like, I actually plan and think about things quite a lot. ⁓ I just don’t plan the same way other people do because I don’t think it’s necessary sometimes. ⁓ yeah, no, I I worked. I’m guiding, I’m rock guiding. I did a lot of long backpacking expeditions, backpack guiding, and I really enjoy it.
Blake Boles (29:28)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Diana Grijalva (29:41)
Yeah, I’m doing the thing. Yeah.
Blake Boles (29:43)
Doing the thing. Um,
we’re going to talk about the, thing and like the, money aspect and the long-term sustainability aspect. But, but first I believe it was roughly at this point in your life that you seem to hit peak dirt bag. Like you were living out of a Corolla, you’re living off of $7,000 a year. You were dumpster dumpster diving. Uh, is this when you started to do battle with, with winter?
Diana Grijalva (29:49)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
Blake Boles (30:14)
Tell me about your
annual cycle at this moment in your life, mid to late 20s.
Diana Grijalva (30:18)
Yeah, so my mid to late 20s, I had gotten an internship in Maine, rock guiding, because that was my jump, my step over to rock guiding. That was great. I was doing that in the summers. And then I was working for Bujum doing base camp and some like shorter backpacking courses in the spring and fall. And I had my winters free. ⁓
And so I was hanging out like in Joshua Tree, living in the park for free with all these other climbing dirt bags, hanging out in like Red Rocks outside of Las Vegas, also with all these other dirt bags. ⁓
But it was cold sometimes, you know? And I was living in a tent, which is great. Or if I’m moving around and just sleeping out, it’s the West Coast, you don’t really need a tent. ⁓ But sometimes I’d be in Joshua Tree and I’m breaking the ice off the outside of my tent. I was like, God. I literally have to break some ice off.
Blake Boles (31:10)
Live in the dream.
Diana Grijalva (31:12)
Breaking the ice off the tent so could unzip it and get out, you know? And I was just like, this sucks. Or it’d be like, really, really windy, or like a hailstorm, and you know? And I’m like, now it’s so windy and cold, and I’m like, sitting in my car trying to get Wi-Fi outside of McDonald’s, you know, to watch a movie or something. And I was like, this blows. And so, yeah, that’s when I was just like, ooh.
Blake Boles (31:33)
Hahaha
Diana Grijalva (31:39)
I gotta figure out something else. I’m just like, it was really fun and adventurous, but I think I need to go somewhere warmer. ⁓ So that’s when I started going down to Mexico, to Pachero Chico, because I’d done that a lot in college. ⁓ And then that place also gets cold sometimes. So I was like, all right, we need to go warmer. And I was ready to step up my game and do more international traveling, which is what.
Since I was a kid, just thought it would be like the coolest thing ever was to just travel to places that are really different, like super different culturally and just like learn about them. So I had some climber friends who were like, yeah, we’re going to Thailand. And I was like, I want to go. So I kind of weaseled my way into that plan. And then we all went to Thailand together. And then that’s when I started doing my international. mean, Mexico is international, but I grew up on the border of Mexico. So I guess I don’t consider it as like foreign.
Blake Boles (32:32)
Yeah. Yeah.
Diana Grijalva (32:34)
foreign to me. Going to Thailand, that was foreign, you know, so. But ultimately it’s a very good foreign, easier place for like tourists. It’s very set up, you know, so was kind of a good, it was a good stepping stone, yeah.
Blake Boles (32:40)
So.
Yes, definitely. Yeah.
And so what began in South America, but, didn’t go as long as you thought it might be, or felt more uncomfortable or intimidating than you anticipated. You got back on that wagon and started to travel in Thailand. I know you ended up working at an international school in Korea and getting to travel all around Korea. Where else have you been? ⁓ I mean, you mentioned in the beginning, some of the warm weather places. Yeah.
Diana Grijalva (32:52)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I did. Uh-huh.
my god, everywhere.
Blake Boles (33:12)
Where have you spent a
lot of time internationally? Where can you really identify with?
Diana Grijalva (33:19)
I mean, I’ve spent a lot time in actually so many places. I spent a lot of time in Laos, like in Ticac, because I was going back to Tanzai and then to Ticac, that’s Southeast Asia. After that, was, you know, I was like in India and Sri Lanka and traveling around and I spent a lot of time in Korea. I spent a lot of time in China, southern China. ⁓ Went back to like Peru. ⁓ I went back to Argentina and Chile. ⁓
I’ve been spending more time recently like in the Mediterranean, so like Spain and Greece, Turkey, a lot of time in Turkey, because I was kind of hiding there during COVID. So I’ve been returning there a lot. ⁓ This last winter I was in Morocco again, and then I was in Egypt and I was like, that was lovely. And then I spent a bunch of time in East Africa and Southern Africa. So I like going to different places. I’ll go back. Like I back to Morocco this year and that was wonderful. Checked out Egypt and I was like, I’ll probably go back to Egypt next.
Blake Boles (33:54)
Yeah.
Diana Grijalva (34:18)
So I’ve been all over and I think the point is that I like to keep on exploring. I want to keep on going to cool places. That’s something that’s like new, a novel in a very different culture than mine. ⁓ That’s like really important to me. Yeah.
Blake Boles (34:27)
Hmm.
Hmm.
So what percentage of your year, just speaking in broad averages, have you spent traveling internationally or traveling within the United States, but not in one place working even if it’s seasonal work?
Diana Grijalva (34:42)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
I mean, even when I’m working, I’m kind of like still traveling all over. Like I might be like, okay, I’m gonna be in this spot in California. Now I’m in that spot the week after, and then I’m in this spot the week after. Okay, now I’m going to Utah. I’m gonna work there. But ⁓ so when I’m working in the US, I’m still pretty mobile. But generally, I mean, I haven’t worked a winter since I think 2010 or something or, you know, so it’s like, don’t work in the…
Blake Boles (35:09)
Hmm.
and define winter,
what months are those for you?
Diana Grijalva (35:20)
like December, January, February. Yeah, maybe like late November. Yeah, I haven’t worked in the winter pretty much since like 2009. ⁓ But yeah, sorry. What was it again? The question was where…
Blake Boles (35:23)
Okay, yeah, deep winter. Yeah.
I’m just curious
what percentage of your year you get to spend traveling and exploring and doing adventures with friends. Oh my gosh. Diana, I got to ask you the hard questions at this moment. Do you have a trust fund? Do you have a wealthy partner? Are you exploiting the…
Diana Grijalva (35:42)
yeah!
I would say three to six months. Three to six months a year, yeah.
No, I wish I did. That’d be great. Yeah, somebody send me a trust fund. Okay, I gotta go fund me or something. I wish I did.
Blake Boles (36:09)
the unemployment system in the United States? Do you have any secrets to how you, yeah, right? ⁓ How do you afford to do this? And when people ask you, all right, let’s.
Diana Grijalva (36:10)
No, I don’t. Actually, because I’m a gig worker. Yeah, yeah.
Because I’m very frugal. Yeah, no, mean, my
parents, like, I mean, my family is like, like, they’re fine. But I also grew up pretty frugal. My dad’s very frugal, which is awesome, because I feel like I grew up not feeling like I needed things, you know? ⁓ And I think that’s like…
Blake Boles (36:37)
What’s something your dad would not
pay for?
Diana Grijalva (36:39)
I mean my dad, my sister is exactly my way so it’s definitely like a family thing. I I went to a Catholic school to 8th grade and then I went to public high school and so I was used to wearing uniforms and then I went to public high school and I was like I want clothes, I’m like a 14 year old girl you know. And I had one pair of jeans and I was like begging my parents for another pair of jeans and my dad was like you have a pair of jeans, why do need another pair of jeans? Like that’s the kind of attitude you know.
Blake Boles (37:06)
Wow.
Diana Grijalva (37:09)
think that’s very much how I am. I’m well, I have this. Why do I need another one? It still works. I don’t care if it’s half broken. It kind of still works. So yeah, think just being very frugal, not feeling like you need all this stuff, and also being resourceful. I’m pretty resourceful. I don’t know. guess I’d rather spend more time. You can find.
Blake Boles (37:15)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Give me an example. Yeah, like what’s something that other people
spend money on and you and your resourcefulness, you choose not to.
Diana Grijalva (37:37)
I like to cook. I buy cheap food. ⁓ I buy fresh cheap food. I don’t need to buy all the fancy snacks and things.
I don’t need to go out to eat. I mean, yeah, I like going out and getting a cocktail, but I don’t do it often. I’m like avoiding the cities really. I mean, I would say like now in my current age, it’s like, yes, I will go out to eat with friends and go spend money with them. But that’s like still a special occasion. And it’s not like a normal thing. It’s not a thing that’s part of my life. And then I wait till I’m in like a very affordable country. And then I like, okay, now I’m to go out and get a coffee. Now I’m going to go.
Blake Boles (38:04)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Diana Grijalva (38:15)
get a cocktail. Now I’m gonna like go get nice meals but I don’t do that in the US. Like so you have to like kind of balance that and when I was making a lot less money I was just a lot more frugal than I am even now you know so yeah I just I don’t know I go I shop a lot at thrift stores
Blake Boles (38:22)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Diana Grijalva (38:37)
I don’t buy a lot of new clothes. If I buy new clothes, it’s like I bought it in some cheap country, you know? So I use the same things. Even my gear, my outdoor gear, I’m buying it from used gear shops. Yeah, I think there’s this very much consumer society. You need to be constantly buying stuff. And I was like, you don’t actually need to be doing that. So. Yeah.
Blake Boles (39:01)
Well, there’s your countercultural streak again. ⁓
It sounds like our construction friends have arrived, but we will press on. ⁓
Diana Grijalva (39:09)
Yeah, yeah, I could try moving
to a different room. Would that be better? Okay. Okay, perfect.
Blake Boles (39:14)
No, no, no, just, ⁓ it’s fine. Let’s, let’s stick with it.
⁓ so tell me how the pay works in your field of, of guiding and when is it really good and you feel rich and when does it feel a bit more mediocre or more like a struggle?
Diana Grijalva (39:28)
Yeah. Uh-huh.
I mean, I think now I’ve just been doing it long enough where I can be more like picky about the work that I do. And like this winter I was actually applying to a lot of jobs because the work I did last year, quite the company downsized quite a lot. So the lot of work I did last year wasn’t available anymore. So I had to be applying to jobs again this winter. And I got like hired pretty much for every job I applied to pretty easily. So I feel like I’m in really privileged position that
I have lots of experience and I’m probably one of the most qualified people applying for the jobs that I’m applying to. ⁓ So it’s like, I mean, for me, I’m getting paid enough. You it’s like you get a daily wage and legally they changed it to like, it’s like an hourly wage, but you you’re making enough money for me as long as I’m not paying rent.
It’s totally fine. Like I feel rich, you know? This year I’m working less and I’m just like, man, I’m making a lot less money. And actually I had a backpack full of climbing gear stolen last week, which is amounting to like, think I’m going to be over, I’ve already spent $2,000 replacing it and I still have more stuff to replace.
So I didn’t feel rich then. But yeah, it is rough. I also am like, OK, I’m privileged because I do have money saved and for things that happened, know, unforeseen things that happen. And it’s like, yeah, this stuff was stolen and I’m pissed and it’s really expensive to replace. I’m not like I don’t I’m not screwed. I have money in my bank account to replace it. So that makes me feel rich, you know. ⁓
Blake Boles (40:50)
That’s rough. Yeah.
Yeah.
Diana Grijalva (41:13)
I can work more if I want to. I choose not to. That makes me feel really rich. ⁓ I have friends in Seattle that I’m visiting. If they want to go out somewhere and do something, I can go out. I’m not going to spend a lot while I’m out, but it’s like I can go do that if I want to, so I feel rich. I I just have everything I need and what I want. ⁓ So I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know what else you could ask for.
Blake Boles (41:40)
Listen, I’m with you. When you say as long as I don’t pay rent, is this assuming that the places you work are providing rent? ⁓ How often do you spend money for rent for housing?
Diana Grijalva (41:42)
Yeah. ⁓
Yeah.
I
don’t, I don’t, I don’t at all. Ever, ever, yeah. I mean, when I was working at the Guiding Service in Maine, which was from 2010 to 2014 in the summertime, it was like 10 weeks in the summer, I was forced to pay rent. And that was only from 2010 to 2014. And other than that, I haven’t paid rent since like 2009, I guess. No, actually then I was working at Astro Camp, so I still didn’t pay rent. So 2008.
Blake Boles (41:56)
Don’t ever, ever.
Yeah. Can you just maybe break down a year from one of your recent years as to where you’ve actually slept? ⁓ Like you’re working at some guiding positions that give you accommodation. What about outside of that?
Diana Grijalva (42:23)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
yeah!
⁓
Well, they don’t give me accommodation. ⁓ So I’m not working, yeah, so no one’s giving me accommodation. ⁓ So if I’m rock guiding, like I just worked a climbing retreat this weekend, it’s at a campground based place.
Blake Boles (42:43)
OK.
Diana Grijalva (42:55)
So I guess if they’re giving me accommodation, they’re giving me a place to park my little van. So I’m sleeping in my van. And then when I’m guiding, backpacking courses, I’m out backpacking with the group that I’m guiding. ⁓ So that’s my accommodation. And then in between work, I have my little van. And before that, it was my car. And I’m just sleeping in public land. When I had the car, I was just sleeping out.
or I was finding places to kind of hide and sleep, which I thought was like really fun at the time. And the van is like lot easier to be discreet and just really be anywhere. But I’m mostly on just like public land. And then if I’m in a city somewhere, which I’ve done maybe to go see like a band or a show or something, I’ll sleep in the van. It can be covert. But like right now I’m just like visiting a friend. But otherwise I would just sleep outside the city on public land somewhere. Yeah.
Blake Boles (43:47)
Yeah.
What about when you’re traveling like in Asia or Africa or Turkey?
Diana Grijalva (43:53)
yeah.
It depends. Sometimes I’m staying in hostels. A lot of time I’m also camping when I’m traveling. Like when I was in Turkey, staying, was like a campground for climbers. Mostly climbers are there. But I camped, you know, for like five months when I was in Chile and Argentina, I was climbing and we were camping. In Spain, I take a tent. A lot of times I’m camping at these also climbing hostel type places. Sometimes I pay for like, like in Africa, I also took a tent. We did a lot of camping, but we also would get rooms a lot, you know,
it’s cheaper. Like this winter in Morocco, I was always staying in hostels and dorm beds, depending if it was really, really cheap, like in Egypt, I would get a private room. ⁓ But I’m really prioritizing the frugalsness, you know, like even Spain is a little cheap, but it’s like, I’m still about $22 for a dorm bed is kind of expensive for me.
Blake Boles (44:36)
Hmm.
Hmm.
At at this point in your early 40s Do you ever feel a bit restricted when you’re choosing to stay in a dorm room dorm bed in a hostel due to financial concerns? Does that get frustrating?
Diana Grijalva (44:49)
huh.
Yeah. Yeah.
It does get a little frustrating, like that’s why again, I just try to stay out of the big city. I don’t do, I don’t stay in the big cities that long because they’re the most expensive places, you know? Um, and I’m just like, Oh, what am I doing with my life? I have to hang out with all these people in this like crowded little dorm room, you know? But honestly, I mean, sometimes I feel like that, but then I’ve noticed a lot of the places I go, it’s a really diverse group of folks stay in those dorm rooms, people of all ages, people of all different backgrounds and all.
Blake Boles (45:27)
Mm-hmm.
Diana Grijalva (45:29)
I
was like, oh, that makes me feel less weird about it, I think. But I’m also, I just put in lot more effort into finding the nicer places. I’m pickier about, okay, if I’m gonna stay in dorm room, try to find someone that looks, somewhere that looks not super, I don’t know, gross.
But I do prefer, like I would rather camp, honestly. I would rather stay in a tent. I think it’s much nicer, you know? So I kind of seek that stuff out. And a bit more pickier now about where I stay than I have been in the past. But I don’t find it restricting. kind of, like I said, I think about it a lot. ⁓ But I still really enjoy it, you know? Yeah.
Blake Boles (46:02)
Yeah.
Okay. So it sounds like you’re, you’re
a thrifty superpower is not just saying no to new clothes or going out to eat, but it’s also like actually enjoying the game of finding interesting, affordable accommodation when you are going to, to pay for it and enjoying the game of where will I park my car or my van? Uh, so that I’m, I’m enjoying my life and not waking up and feeling miserable outside of McDonald’s trying to get wifi.
Diana Grijalva (46:20)
huh.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Totally, yeah. mean, I like being outside in these beautiful natural places. I really enjoy it, you know? That was kind of like the whole thing. I was like, I’m doing this because I love doing this, you know? So…
Blake Boles (46:41)
⁓
Yeah. And, and it
sounds like you genuinely enjoy camping. Like you like sleeping out. Is there a moment you can think of from the past year or two, like a camping moment, like you woke up and this is what you saw or felt or experienced and you’re like, this is why I do this. This is incredible.
Diana Grijalva (46:58)
I like it so much more than sleeping inside. Yeah, I don’t like sleeping inside. Yeah.
yeah.
I mean all the time, honestly. Literally all the time. I’m like, this is amazing. Even yesterday, I was at Mount Erie State Park in Washington, and I was just looking out over the water, and I’m working, and I’m setting up ropes for these women’s, it’s a women’s climbing retreat, and I was like, this is so cool.
Blake Boles (47:24)
Give me a name, give me a place.
Diana Grijalva (47:43)
I was like, is gorgeous. It’s like so amazing. It’s gorgeous. Everyone here is awesome. Like I just like, I just like love it. You know, like this is, can’t like what could be better than this? You know? ⁓ It’s beautiful. And I was just like thinking of like when I was a kid, I was like, up here Washington, the summer is just like feels magical. Everything is soft and green and it’s cool. The trees, the moss, it just feels like.
I feel really inspired by nature and not just like nature but just like beautiful wild places and I get to be in them all the time and I just like love it like this winter I was in Morocco and I was like climbing with a friend of mine who flew out from California she could only come for two weeks and I was like I literally can stay here as long as I want you know and I’m just like you like on a rest day I just went like walking around the desert mountains and I’m
I feel 100 % confident and capable being out here and safe and know how to get around and be in the mountains. And it’s awesome. It just feels so freeing and inspiring and the most rewarding. It’s just very rewarding. And then that’s when it feels like, yes, this is all worth it.
Blake Boles (49:07)
Hmm. Diana, it seems very clear that you have carefully crafted like the time of your life and how you get to spend your time. I want to talk a little bit more about money and purpose and the, on the money side of things. I’m curious if you can speak in broad strokes about how much money you’ve been living off of, ⁓ for, know, each year and then, ⁓ how much you’re able to save in this lifestyle.
Diana Grijalva (49:19)
Okay.
huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I’ve been able to save a surprisingly large amount, which actually shocks me too. I literally also am always like, how did I save this much money? I have no idea how I did that. Yeah, no, I make, mean.
Blake Boles (49:45)
Hahaha
Diana Grijalva (49:51)
I would say like in the low 20 something thousand a year. So, and probably even less this year because I’ve worked less because it was like employment transitions, which is like really not that much money. But also when I think about like, okay, let’s say someone who pays rent.
Blake Boles (50:05)
Yeah.
Diana Grijalva (50:12)
Maybe they’re paying $1,500 a month for their apartment or whatever. If you add that up, it’s OK, it’s kind of the same as making, I don’t know, $40-something thousand a year for a single person, which is kind of just on the lower end, but totally fine. I don’t have any debt. My van I bought with cash straight out because I don’t want to be in debt. And
Blake Boles (50:29)
Mm-hmm.
Diana Grijalva (50:41)
my student loans, like I went to a school that was quite affordable. And so I was able to, and I got all sorts of like grants and scholarships and stuff. So I was able to pay that off quite easily. I just, yeah, I mean, it’s actually totally fine the amount of money that I make because I’m not paying rent. And that gives me a lot of freedom to not work that much and to have a lot of time, which is like,
Blake Boles (51:01)
Hmm.
Diana Grijalva (51:07)
my ultimate, I mean, like again, I’m always thinking about like, this worth it? Is this worth it? Do I want to keep on doing this? And even more recently, I’m like, do I want to rent a room maybe somewhere so I can build more community? Do I want, you know, all these things? But I’m like, at the moment, I feel like this still is like the best fit for me. I mean, I’m always trying to tweak it, you know, but I’m still like, this is fine actually. So.
Blake Boles (51:27)
Hmm.
I just think it’s
amazing that you can live for so long off of 20 something thousand dollars a year and be traveling for three to six months out of the year and be saving money at the same time.
Diana Grijalva (51:40)
Yeah, and then-
Yeah, a lot of camping.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don’t know what everyone else is spending so much money on, like I said, it actually surprises me too.
Blake Boles (52:10)
Let’s. ⁓
Yeah. Yeah. Let’s pivot into the purpose field. You’ve been doing outdoor guiding and outdoor education for a long time. ⁓ I do a lot of similar work. I think it’s automatically very fulfilling. What’s your experience been? Where have the lows and the highs been? How big is the spectrum of feeling you’re doing something important, socially meaningful, personally purposeful?
Diana Grijalva (52:25)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm,
mm-hmm. I mean, I think maybe I just also in general, feel like I feel things a lot. So it’s like, there’s highs that are really high, there’s lows that are really lows. But I’m like, that’s just probably no matter what I’m doing, that’s just what my life’s gonna be like. ⁓ But I mean, the most fulfilling things are when you’re helping, when people…
are just so, it’s like I’m showing them another world. It’s like, look at this beautiful place and they feel really inspired by it and also really inspired by what challenge they just overcame and that feels like I’m facilitating that experience. That feels really, really, that’s when I’m just like, wow, what is casual for me and just my everyday life is breathtakingly special for just one day for somebody else. And that also reminds me how amazing this life is.
Blake Boles (53:31)
Hmm.
Diana Grijalva (53:33)
just to not take it for granted. And then the lows will be like, you know, I work with a lot of very expensive private schools.
And there’s a lot of privilege in that. And a lot of these students just live these lives that are just like, I mean, nothing like I’ve ever experienced, you know? And their level of entitlement, which is, I mean, there’s just kind of like innocent entitlement, but there’s also not so innocent entitlement where their viewpoints and how they act and what they say. And I just see how there’s not a lot of accountability. And they just have everything handed to them.
Blake Boles (53:52)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Diana Grijalva (54:12)
and they will continue to and these are the people that run our country and are in positions of power and then I start going down this like and this is what’s wrong with society and everything about this country and blah blah blah blah you know and then I just like hate everybody. ⁓ That would be a low I guess is when I feel like now I’m just like catering to these just like
these students that I mean a lot of times are like 17, 18 and I’m like, okay, they are not full grown adults. Like they are very much just influenced by, you know, their environments. And I have to realize that, but also I’m like, this is a little microcosm of society and I’m just like working with these people, catering to them. And I wish I could be showing these cool things and these experiences with more middle-class and lower income folks, you know, and I don’t get to that’s unfortunately not.
Blake Boles (55:04)
Mm-hmm.
Diana Grijalva (55:06)
who I get to share these experiences with. So yeah, that I wish could be different.
Blake Boles (55:12)
Have you tried to move in that direction of
getting paid to guide people in that socioeconomic stratum?
Diana Grijalva (55:19)
Yeah, I’ve like thought about that a lot. was like, how can I make this really rewarding? Like I actually would really, this would mean a lot to me to work with like other companies that do cater to that. But it’s just a matter of like making that work in the right place and the right time. It’s like, haven’t really been able to like figure that out quite so much, you know? ⁓
Blake Boles (55:40)
Yeah,
yeah, that’s tricky.
Diana Grijalva (55:41)
And I mean, Boojum sometimes would
work with like, yeah, other schools that were more like that. And it was just, it was really cool, you know? And like sometimes there’s like scholarship students at these expensive schools I work at and sometimes I get to work with those kids and it’s like way different and I love it. Just like, feel like much better able to connect with them, you know?
Oh, 100%. Oh yeah, yeah, 100%.
Yeah, yeah
Yeah, I did have a little bit of a, yeah, this kind of like thought.
Blake Boles (56:34)
Yeah, tell me about that crisis.
Diana Grijalva (56:36)
Yeah, I think during COVID it was very apparent because I couldn’t do the things I wanted to do. I couldn’t go see the people I wanted to see. I wanted to do the traveling, all this, and I kind of was stuck a bit. But yeah, mean, even the places that I go to a lot, one place, a friend jokingly was like, oh, you’re the elder now. And I was like, oh my god, don’t call me that. But I’m 100 % older than everybody else. And even the folks that feel like they’re aging out, I’m significantly older.
older
than them and the friends I used to grow, yes exactly, they’re like 35, which I kind of feel like I’m like 35 anyway, so it doesn’t really matter that much. I mean and a lot of people I hang out with, they’ll be like 25. I’m like okay, whatever, but it does, I mean I do think about like, I mean is this who I want to keep on surrounding myself with? How like…
Blake Boles (57:08)
Hmm. They’re like 35.
Diana Grijalva (57:30)
How long can I keep on doing this too? I want my social group to be this. You know, I’m always asking myself questions. But then I’ll go to like Europe and actually the scene there is really different. And there’s a lot of people in bands that just retired early and they’re traveling around or they just have more time off. So there’s people doing different things. I don’t know. I’ll go to Europe or Morocco even. And I was like, met all these other folks. I was like, I actually could just do this my whole life and it would be fine.
Blake Boles (57:59)
Hmm. Are there any specific?
Diana Grijalva (57:59)
I have these like wild swings.
Yeah. Go ahead.
Blake Boles (58:04)
You know,
I’ve met a few people in Europe that are deeply inspirational to me. remember a guy who hosted me in France, right near the Pyrenees. He was retired and he was going on these epic, like three to six month long bicycle trips alone in places like Saudi Arabia and Yemen or like, just like out there. And he’s like, yeah, this is just what I do. and.
Diana Grijalva (58:20)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Blake Boles (58:32)
I agree, there’s more people of more ages ⁓ that, who seem to still be super comfortable and proud to live this more like outdoorsy frugal life. ⁓ And in the US, I feel like I run into people like that, but it’s more often mixed with desperation. ⁓ And so my question is like, where do you find your, yeah, and safety nets too. ⁓
Diana Grijalva (58:42)
Right, right.
Yeah, yeah, there’s a very different attitude.
Mm-hmm.
Blake Boles (58:59)
Where do you find your inspiration, ⁓ looking down the line and thinking like, maybe I can keep living like this? Like any, are there any specific people who stand out to you?
Diana Grijalva (59:10)
No, I actually I don’t feel like I have any specific people and I think that’s like maybe sometimes while I’ll have like like is like maybe some doubts I’m like is this okay is this because I don’t really have any models or like anybody like well this person did it and they’re fine you know and it creates like some doubt especially you know like my family’s definitely like not they’re like very worried you know so it’s like I think I think it’s easy to have those like doubts and like are you sure you’re okay sure you
Blake Boles (59:36)
Hmm.
Diana Grijalva (59:40)
like kind of creep into my mind. So there’s no specific people but I do like meet a lot of people when I’m traveling, like a lot a lot of people. And I guess it’s just like I get lots of inspiration from all the different random people. Not anyone I know well but I, you know, when I was like traveling around Africa I met lots of people biking around different parts of Africa. And one guy had been like biking for like 15 years and he was in his 60s, you know, and he’s like I tried to go back home, my mom passed away, I went home to like whatever European
Blake Boles (1:00:04)
Mm-hmm.
Diana Grijalva (1:00:10)
He’s like, that lasted nine months, now I’m back out again, you know? ⁓ And I don’t know, I guess it’s just like, there’s a lot of ways to live and I can do it a lot of different ways and I feel also very not stuck, you know? Like I’m like, if I want to, I can just go rent a place or I’ll go move somewhere or…
Blake Boles (1:00:16)
Hmm.
Diana Grijalva (1:00:33)
I can do whatever I want. so seeing just lots of different people doing different things and in their own ways, just fit to whatever they want to do, just gives me the inspiration to be like, you are fine. It’s actually…
Okay, but there’s no one specific person. And I think that, like I said, I feel like if I did have some role models, I’d probably feel less like, God, you know? But maybe that sense of insecurity also just makes sure that I’m like covering my ass a little bit too, you know? So, yeah.
Blake Boles (1:01:05)
Hmm.
You know, at some point we all run out of role models and we need to become the role models for someone else. ⁓ Diana, if you did need to, let’s say need capital and need to stop and stay in one place and get a so-called real job, 95, 50 weeks a year. ⁓ what job do you feel like you would go for? What do you feel qualified for that would also.
Diana Grijalva (1:01:10)
Yeah, yeah, yeah ⁓
huh.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
yeah.
Blake Boles (1:01:33)
know, pay you enough to actually afford paying rent and having this more normal lifestyle.
Diana Grijalva (1:01:36)
Mm-hmm.
⁓ I mean, I think about that all the time, also because my parents are getting older and I’m like, if something were to happen to them, I’d be the one to go take care of them, you know? ⁓
I could easily get a job teaching, know, it’s like you have a science degree. It’s like have a math minor. It’s like, I could easily be a high school teacher. I feel like science and math teachers are always struggling to find. I feel like I have so much experience with students and I’m good at teaching. Like I could do that. I think about tutoring also. I’m like, I could do that. Event organization, because a lot of like these huge like base camp courses and just things I’m used to doing lots of logistics and have worked.
Blake Boles (1:02:12)
Mm.
Diana Grijalva (1:02:19)
logistics for a lot of places also, and also just logistics of my own life. ⁓ And I’m pretty detail-oriented and systematic, so I think that’s easy. Also, I think I could just go get a master’s degree and do something, like go back to science, do something like that. But if I needed a job now, yeah, I would look at teaching, tutoring, something that, because…
Blake Boles (1:02:35)
Hmm.
Diana Grijalva (1:02:43)
I’d be happy to do anything, like honestly I wouldn’t even mind just working in a coffee shop or something, but I do enjoy the cerebral, ⁓ just like, I like math and science, and if anything that’s like I miss that a little bit, honestly. Yeah.
Blake Boles (1:03:00)
Hmm.
⁓ Diana, it’s been a pleasure to meet who I believe to be the closest version of a clone that I have in this world. It’s a pleasure. And, ⁓ yeah, I’m glad we finally got to connect. So thank you very much for coming on the dirtbag rich podcast.
Diana Grijalva (1:03:09)
⁓ yeah, yeah. No, it’s lovely talking.
Yeah.
thank you. And I hope this inspires other people to just like, you know, you can make your life whatever version you want it, like whatever you want it to look like, you know, so. And that’s. Yeah, exactly. Just like do what you want, because if you don’t, nobody else is going to do it for you. Yeah.
Blake Boles (1:03:34)
and she doesn’t have any role models, so maybe I don’t need one.
Amen.