James Brown is a 43-year-old traveler, relational coach, graphic designer, and lifelong seeker caught between the urge to roam and the desire to put down roots. (jameswonders.uk)
After spending his twenties and early thirties working long hours in England’s gray corporate offices—commuting three hours a day to a job he genuinely loved but a life that left him drained—James finally broke free. He quit, bought a motorbike, and rode across Europe before taking an eight-month cycling journey through Asia with his girlfriend. The trip ended their relationship but sparked something else: a realization that he could live on very little, work remotely, and make his own rules.
In the years that followed, James built a flexible, purpose-driven life as a freelance designer for nonprofits while living in Italy, Costa Rica, Spain, Morocco, and Colombia. His days alternated between deep creative focus and drifting—renting apartments in tiny towns, learning new languages, and building communities he would inevitably have to leave when visas expired or restlessness returned.
At the heart of James’s story is tension: between adventure and stability, freedom and belonging. He dreams of having a home base, a dog, and his own cupboard full of clothes—but he also knows that at any moment, he could sell everything and ride into the horizon again. Lately he’s been trying to understand why through the practices of “circling” and “authentic relating.”
We talk about how childhood restlessness can become adult wanderlust, how travel can be both healing and escapist, and how to know when “freedom” starts to look like avoidance. James reflects on the comfort of drifting, the fatigue of constant choice, and what it might take to finally stop moving—not because he’s trapped, but because he’s ready to stay.
Full transcript: dirtbagrich.com/james
Recorded in October 2025.
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Transcript
This is an AI-generated transcript. Typos and mistakes exist!
Blake Boles (00:00)
James Brown, welcome to Dirtbag Rich.
James (00:03)
Thanks very much Blake. Really happy to be here.
Blake Boles (00:08)
You told me that you could buy a bike and cycle for the rest of your life or you could fix your issues and actually have some roots and you really feel like your life could go either direction and it would be fine. What does that mean?
James (00:24)
Yeah, I can. It’s almost like the two figures sitting on either of my shoulders, or being pulled by two horses might be even more extreme version.
There’s often a very sort of romantic part in me that sees like an instant solution to everything is why don’t I just get on a bicycle and, ⁓ and just keep going. And in some ways that feels very manageable because I just have to look after myself and there’s always things to see.
It’s very much a kind of like drifting off into the sunset, you know, that that’s that’s a solution. Everything solved then. My actual experience is that isn’t realistic or practical because then life keeps coming along. ⁓ But it’s this kind of like this this dream idea of like everything’s a bit difficult. I’ll just get on a bike and I’ll go cycling and then I’ll be happy. Yeah, and then there’s been this other part of me, this like split part that that wants connection with people that enjoys community enjoys consistency of habits and things that wants to like push projects forward or just manage all of the stuff that I own in different places and want them in one place so I could open a cupboard and actually see the clothes I own that I’ve not seen for probably nine years because they’ve just been in storage. I could have a dog potentially, which there’s no reason I couldn’t have a dog if I was cycling. But it’s these kind of weird little things that just build up and list up ⁓ in me. And these two routes often seen very in conflict. It feels sort of like one path or another. And yet what I’ve actually done in my life is I’ve tried to keep a foot in both paths. And that’s also been pretty stressful.
Blake Boles (02:46)
You are speaking to my experience, James. We’re the same age also, but I really feel like I could have said most of those same words and really meant them. I just wanted to focus on this phrase. I could fix my issues. Do you feel like, do you feel like getting on a bike or otherwise going traveling, finding new places, meeting new people is genuinely a way to avoid fixing your issues? ⁓ Do you feel like you’re wanderlust? Have you pathologized it in your life or have other people pathologized it and said like this is an issue that needs to be fixed?
James (03:23)
Wow, think I can imagine a lot of other people. ⁓ Like, it feels like a great deal of my of a period in my 20s, especially early 30s was sort of in conflict to a lot of the people that were around me and I knew in that they didn’t understand what I was doing or my lifestyle. Like, I mean, it’s just classic my parents of like, when are going to buy a house? You know, that’s, that’s the main sort of first sentence that I’ll always get from my parents of any interaction. ⁓ But it’s not just them, it just felt like culturally, the people around me, the kind of people I knew and met found it difficult to understand what I was doing or, you know, okay, you’re just going to do that for a little while and then you’re going to stop, right? ⁓ So I think there’s been, yeah, that’s kind of lesser now. So I could sort of forget that a little bit, but I think there’s probably been a lot of pathologizing. There’s a lot of feeling kind of strange and going against the flow and…
There’s so there’s that element, but there is there is a knowing in me that, for example, I’m I find it incredibly easy to procrastinate. So in this split, there has been a desire for me to have my own house, my own space. I have had this ongoing frustration of being in a million different rooms or houses or spaces.
And in every single one, there are things that frustrate me that I would change, that I would fix, that I would make different. if I was going to stay here, if this was my place. And then there are spaces where I that are just beautiful, wonderful spaces. And I think I would like to actually live in this space. I would like to have my own space that is this. And there are times when I’m incredibly burnt out on a flight.
And I’m wishing that I was going back to my own space somewhere and I didn’t have to speak to people. And I would go in the, in, you know, enter in the door and I would know where everything is and I would drop my bag. And yeah, like this idea of a kind of safe space, a base somewhere. Um, and why haven’t I got that? Why haven’t I done that?
Blake Boles (06:10)
Yeah.
James (06:11)
My story is procrastination. Like that’s a very difficult, that brings up difficult decisions or decisions that I make difficult. And this is where I say about the, kind of issues it doesn’t feel. Sometimes I feel like I’m in slight, ⁓ sort of resistance to my own wants or there’s a, there doesn’t feel like a total clarity in me that I’m saying, okay, I’m going to make this choice. And I’m totally happy with this choice. And I feel totally aligned.
And I’m going down this route. ⁓ like I was kind of giggling because I was thinking about a lot of the people I’ve heard on your podcast. I’m like, wow, they sound so organized and together and like just happy with their lives. And it seems to all make sense. Whereas my feeling is I’m often kind of bumbling around blowing against the wind, struggling against my own confusion of what I want. And so in comparison to that, a very easy decision is like,
Why don’t I just go and cycle around Africa? Like that’s something I’ve always wanted to do. Um, I’ve just got to buy a flight and I’m sure I could pick up some second hand bicycle somewhere. And then I’ll see what I do when I get there. Like in comparison, that is always just been a, especially in those kinds of frustrated, tired out moments or yeah, times that sort of difficulty or the weather’s bad. It’s very easy for me to make that decision. Whereas making this decision of like, right, let’s get a house, let’s get a, let’s commit to a certain space. Let’s, what are the things that I want in that that can be totally inflated into, into just overwhelm and decision fatigue. it’s something that’s very easy to click, click along the path. But then I find myself like now for the last 20 years having this same conversation. And that’s where I define it as issues. Because if I wasn’t having that.
Blake Boles (08:07)
Mmm.
James (08:10)
sort of repeated conversation. If I had clarity in me and comfort, I would see that I’d just be totally fine with what I’m doing. And so that’s what makes me see it as like something worth focusing on. And I would like to get to a point where I have a lot more just clarity and ease in making decisions and comfort. And maybe that would come across as the way I speak to other people, the way I describe myself.
would also come through with that. would say, yeah, this is who I am. This is what I do. This is I have this and I do that. ⁓ And there would be, yeah, just clarity and comfort there. Whereas I often find myself speaking in a way that’s exactly what you’re hearing right now, which is me sort of like, ⁓ don’t know, I don’t, I don’t seem to have like, all the solutions. And so I like exploring. ⁓
Blake Boles (08:54)
Yeah.
James (09:09)
Yeah, what is going on for me? And where are these sort of bottlenecks? Where are these disruptors? is this confusion coming from?
Blake Boles (09:18)
Hmm. Have you tried lying to people?
James (09:22)
You know what, I have done an incredible amount of lying to people. Again, mainly my parents when I don’t tell them about strange countries that they would prefer I wasn’t in. So I’ve more omitted the truth. And then, yes, I can do an incredibly good sales pitch nowadays that helps people not be worried about me, where I’ll tell them.
Yeah, yeah, no, I have total plan and this is what I’m doing. And it’s it’s it’s it’s I can make it sound wonderful, the kind of places I’m going to all the things I’m doing. And yeah, I can make it very easy for people not to ask me follow up questions, or direct them towards a topic that’s more comfortable for them.
Blake Boles (10:05)
Let’s ground all of this in your life
experience, James, because you started life as an artist, but not the kind of like artists that maybe we think about stereotypically, but more like the commuting and traffic kind of artists. Can you just tell me about your upbringing and your education?
James (10:23)
I like that.
I love that, that’s beautiful. I’m gonna write that one down. Yeah, when I was a kid, I just wanted to draw all the time. I would make these little strange illustrations. They just came out of my head and often for external validation, but that’s like another story. Then even throughout school,
I would be in other classes or other subjects. And I remember I used to like in science class, I would say something like, is there a drawing I could do? Can I do an illustration of something and that will get me the results that I need because I don’t actually want to do the work that you’re setting me. I’m going to keep it very brief, but I wasn’t actually allowed to study art.
in my secondary school when you have to like choose the subjects that you want to like go on, go forward with because it conflicted with like history and German, which has zero interest in. I ended up taking art. Yeah, this is a this is another like we could we could fall down this path of that rage that I also feel. But I want to give a massive like applause to my art teacher who who offered me to
Blake Boles (11:19)
Hmm.
⁓ I am enraged on your behalf.
James (11:45)
study during lunchtimes like to kind of catch up and do it that way. And in the end, I just stopped going to maths classes and other things because I had zero interest. Because I was just so like, all I’ve ever enjoyed is this and all I’ve ever wanted to do is this. And why would I do anything else? It never made any sort of sense to me. ⁓ And then that obviously led to me
With that kind of conviction, I was like, well, what is the thing I can do? Because I never really thought of myself as an artist or doing art. I was just like, well, I draw stuff. So what do I do? So then the only thing that came with clarity was like, well, art seems to be the closest to that, even though I have no interest in painting or anything. So I went on to study through college and through university. I studied art, fine art and conceptual art. And
Yeah, and then I bounced my way out of university. The bubble broke of this paradise that I was in where I was just around friends all day, walking around bare feet, covered in paint, creating strange sculptures out of chairs that I found around the back of some shed somewhere. Yeah, all of that bubble sort of popped. And then I realized when everybody was packing up their things at university and going off to their plans and their futures.
I had no idea what I was going to do. um, yeah. And I realized that I’ve got to, I’ve got to make some money. I’ve got to live. And I was just in total, totally lost, like really in a, in in a depression, uh, in confusion and fear, it really kind of hit me out of nowhere. And so
Again, I could, I kind of want to keep this short because I could go very long into this, but I struggled through loads of terrible, terrible jobs, like working in, I just went to an agency and said, I need money, you know, give me, give me jobs. And they would send me to like a factory to do some stuff there or a overnight call center to do things there. And I just really felt like totally a loss. ⁓ and then I had a very lucky opportunity.
that meant I did a little bit of graphic design work. And I realized that I was very capable there and enjoyed it. And that led to getting my first graphic design role where I was actually paid for me very good money. Like nowadays, it wouldn’t seem like good money, but compared to the kind of three pound 50 an hour or whatever I was working in a garage for, it was dream money for me.
I was doing something that I absolutely loved doing. I went from all my life through school and then through those early times of work of dreading Mondays and Sunday, Sunday afternoons for me went from bliss to hell as I started to realize that the next day I’d have to go and do something I didn’t want to do. whereas I started when I was graphic designer, I started waking up Monday morning, you know, I dreamed of the solutions to problems that I’ve been having, you know, like
ideas for things that I was working on and I just couldn’t wait to get to work to start playing with those, start laying those out. I kind of would miss lunches. I wouldn’t eat. I would work late. I literally would not stop looking at the computer for about 10 hours a day. I had to start installing an app that would make me make take breaks because I would just be in total flow state and really just really satisfied and content and happy and engaged and motivated. Yeah.
Blake Boles (15:31)
Sounds dreamy.
So there is a moment where it stopped being so dreamy, right?
James (15:45)
Yeah, so that came with it came with at one point a three hour commute in a car in traffic every morning. It came with sitting in an office wearing a shirt. It came with ⁓
Blake Boles (16:01)
Wait, wait, any shirt or like a certain kind of shirt which is uncomfortable?
James (16:06)
I mean, a shirt, you know, with buttons that I might have to iron and ironing shirts is always, I had to iron my shirts even when I was a kid. So anything even close to that is uncomfortable for me. Yes, exactly that. Exactly that. And overhead office lighting. ⁓ The biggest thing for me was being in England and going into the office when it was dark, sitting in a very gray damp.
Blake Boles (16:11)
Yeah.
That’s right, it’s a sign that your life is going downhill.
James (16:35)
depressing office with this horrible lighting. ⁓ And then leaving the office just as it started to get dark again and driving in traffic home and go to the gym and then cooking dinner and then going to sleep and then repeat the next day. So I loved the work, but the atmosphere felt ⁓ horrible. Just really horrible to me.
I’m sort of going back into it now as I talk about it, because I’ve not been in that situation for such a long time. But why? Why would I want to be in that situation? It’s just horrible. It’s like I can’t breathe. It’s like my stomach is uncomfortable. So I had, I’ve always enjoyed the people I work with. always had good times with the people. I love that. But everything else was, it just felt like, why would I, why, why, you know, there’s more
I would look out, I literally would go out at lunchtime, I would sit in my car, because my car would get warm from the sunshine on these like, you know, cold English days. Whenever there was sunshine, it would be like a little greenhouse. And I go sit out there at lunchtime, and just have my eyes closed and sit in the car and pretend I was in a nice place. And so like, a few years of that, and I finally twigged like, huh, maybe this isn’t the ideal situation for me and maybe there’s something else.
Blake Boles (18:00)
So you made a break for it.
James (18:04)
Yeah, a couple of things happen. Like one, I used to sit by a lovely woman and we were really good friends and she would constantly talk about Egypt. She would go to Egypt every year for holiday. She would constantly talk about Egypt. She was just obsessed by the culture and the history and everything else. And I remember I sort of was, I’m sure I was projecting my experience onto her, but I would get frustrated with her. And I remember at one point I just said,
Why you just move to Egypt? Just move to Egypt. What are you doing? Like, come on. And funnily enough, she did. She moved to Egypt. And then she invited me to go visit. I went visiting for a couple of weeks. She lived in Luxor. And obviously we traveled around, we did stuff. I saw her for a couple of weeks. And it was amazing to see someone like, actually living in a space, not just on holiday in space. Like she had an apartment, she was
go into the market to buy a new lamp, which took a whole day because you have to get the light bulb in another place. then, you know, all these stories of someone actually living in this other totally foreign culture. And then after at the end of the trip, I sort of left her and I because I wanted to go and see more places, go see Cairo and other spots. So just got on buses and went to places. And for me, that was probably the first time I went and gone anywhere on my own and to somewhere that felt much more foreign than the kind of cultures that I’d seen before.
⁓ cause I hadn’t really traveled that much anyway in my life. ⁓ and it just, that was really eye opening for me. After that, there were a couple of people at work who had done a lot more traveling than me and they invited me. They told me, Hey, we’re to go backpacking in India for a few weeks. Do want to come along? And again, for me, that was way out of my, like what would be normal for me. And I just jumped at it because I thought, well, this is great. Like.
going with people I like to someone that sounds amazing. And they kind of I think they know what they’re doing. So it was great. Like, you know, they kind of planned everything. There were those people that like, okay, we’re gonna take this train from here to here on this day, we’re gonna go and see this. And all I had to do was like pack a pack a bag and go along. And that just absolutely blew my mind because ⁓ everything about it. mean, India for me was a sensory ⁓
Blake Boles (20:19)
Hmm, easy.
James (20:29)
explosion, you know, the colors and the sounds and the smells, all the typical things that you hear about. But it really I just took hundreds of photos, I was just staring out bus windows, everything about it was I was just like a little kid with massive eyes open all the time. And then the other part of it was the like practicalities of money and things, you know, we were spending nothing we would, we were in Kerala, and we rented a houseboat this
beautiful, intricately made wooden houseboat. There was three of us. We had a cook, had a driver. You know, like all of this for us, I’d never had anything like that my life. And we’re just drifting down this river, like sitting in hammocks and stuff, eating like food, like fish that was caught straight out of the river. And this was costing us like 10 pounds a day or less. And I just, it really, it just
It just totally blew my mind. was again, I was just like, this exists. I can’t believe this exists. Why has no one told me this exists? Um, so when I came back to England and people would say, Hey, let’s go for a beer. And you know, the, price we would pay for a beer would last me a day in India. It, it just started to like break down these ideas of like, what is normal and what is possible. Um, and it started me getting itchy, getting restless.
Blake Boles (21:33)
Hmm.
And this led to bigger, I mean, this is really your transition into the modern James era, right? Of heavy travel. And yeah, so what was the next big step that you took to scratch that itch?
James (22:12)
Yeah.
So a couple of things happen. One, I started to get a lot of problems like irritable bowel syndrome. I started to get really painful stomachs and intestines and lots of discomfort and like acid reflux and all this kind of stuff. I wasn’t sleeping. I was uncomfortable all day. I was just in pain basically all the time, different forms of pain. And this went on for a long time, like months, turned into years.
And, you know, went to the doctors and they sort of like different tests and different things. And then they basically went, no, we don’t know what it is. So we’ll call it irritable bowel syndrome. We’ll call it this thing because it could be anything and we don’t know. And I realized that, ⁓ okay. I kind of thought you guys fixed things, but I’ve got a problem and you can’t fix it. And this was very disheartening for me and frightening. I was really scared. ⁓ because I didn’t know how to deal with basically chronic pain.
And I realized I just started doing loads of research and reading everything online and following all the kinds of these weird tips that people give you and different stuff. But through that, I learned a lot of things and I started to change a lot of things in my lifestyle from just food and nutrition. But also I realized like, I’m a bit of a workaholic. You know, I was working weekends at that point. I was just I would take on any project that was given to me because I wanted to do everything.
because I didn’t like the idea of someone else doing it because it wouldn’t be done to my standards and all this kind of stuff. I became a total perfectionist and yeah, all the validation I would get for doing things. I was kind of working myself to death in this job that I loved. So it took me a while to work that out because I didn’t see that as a problem. And I was just living this like very fast life. Like everything was squeezed in and pretty stressful.
Uh, so through this, this kind of learning how to deal with this, um, illness, basically, there was a few things I had to totally change, like how I treated nutrition. And I also realized that stress is a major factor for me. So I started to look at, okay, how can I, how can I change my life in this way? And the first thing that happened was I bought a motorbike by that point and I was really enjoying.
riding around on my motorbike. But again, in England, you have to you only have the weekends, you have two days. And then you have to hope those two days are sunny. But what actually happens is Wednesday and Thursday is always sunny. And then the weekend is miserable. And I sit in the office on Wednesday and Thursday going, God, this would be the best day to do my motorbike and see other people driving outside on their bikes. And yeah, and that started to really frustrate me. So the first thing that happened was I said, Okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna just
Blake Boles (24:51)
Mm-hmm.
James (25:10)
sort of quit my job and I’m to change things. And I want to just go away on my motorbike. But when I told my, my company that they were obviously very sad to lose me and they said, okay, what about if we give you a sabbatical, you know, you can just take it, take six months, take a year and then come back. And that was ideal for me because there was less risk in that. So I went off on my motorbike. I rode around Europe. I just took a tent with me. I just slept in random places.
I’d never done anything like that before. I hadn’t even really camped that much. I don’t come from any kind of background like that. That just wasn’t normal in my upbringing or anything. So I just sort of researched online, got the things I thought I needed, ⁓ went away with way too much stuff. Like the back of my bike looked like a kind of, you know, it was more like a truck, you know, there’s so much stuff. Tape like just held on by random bits of string and tape. It was a mess. ⁓
Blake Boles (25:47)
Mm-hmm.
James (26:07)
At one point I did actually have a fire on the back of the motorbike because one of the bags kind of started to slump down and touch the exhaust and I had to stop on the motorway because everything was just on fire behind me. Yeah. So again, lots of lessons. So that was the start of me like breaking away from work and, and, and doing something like very different. I also wanted to conquer this thing of I’d never been able to be on my own. I was terrified of being on my own.
Blake Boles (26:17)
fun
James (26:36)
So I’d always be with people, with friends or in relationships or with family. And so the idea of going traveling on my own scared me. And I thought, okay, I need to, I want to travel more. Other people around me don’t seem to have time to travel because they want to work and things like this. So I want to, I want to kind of conquer it. So that’s the way I thought I’d approach it. so when I went on that bike, but I actually, it totally killed me. It was way too much too quickly.
Because I I was going to countries like France and places where I didn’t speak the language and I’d be in the middle of nowhere So the people there didn’t speak the language. So I just stopped talking to people basically So for weeks I was just in my own head in a motorbike with a kind of droning noise in the background and that Major shift was was a bit too much for me and it was overwhelming and I was just camping in the wild in places So I was literally just not speaking to people for weeks
Blake Boles (27:21)
Hmm.
James (27:34)
So I inadvertently put myself into some kind of silent retreat ⁓ with none of the resources of how to deal with that. And I went pretty crazy. So I cut that trip short and came back, which was a bit difficult because I kind of told people like, maybe I’ll ride around the world. And then I had to kind of, I felt like I was coming back a bit with my tail between my legs because I just sort of drifted around Europe and then got the boat back.
Blake Boles (27:58)
Mm-hmm.
James (28:03)
But a lot of people were actually very supportive. sort of saw a lot of people know what I’m like. So when I tell about these fantasy stories, they’re like, okay, well, yeah, let’s see. But I came back and the company said to me like, okay, what are you doing? Are going to come back or you know, you’re going to come back to work or are you going to are you going to quit the job? And it was a bit of a tough
decision for me, but I just decided like, I can’t go back because even though it had been a difficult experience, I had loved it as well. And I, the idea of going back into the office didn’t feel right for me at all. It felt like going back into prison. So I said, no, I’m going to quit, but maybe I can work for you like freelance so I can do some projects, but I’ll do it from home. And then I thought I could, you know, get other companies and do other things. So I did that for a little bit. ⁓
And I had, I was in a relationship at the time. So my girlfriend was incredibly patient with me. So she, yeah, she was very supportive about me going off on my own on this bike around Europe, even though it wasn’t her like, you know, favorite idea that we’d spend quite a long time apart. And yeah, when I came back, we moved to this little country house.
I had a garage, had a motorbike, bicycle, van, car. I had some tools in there, I had a garden, we had a cat, I had a hammock. So I had this idea that I had, like this is the perfect life I’ve always wanted. And then you can imagine like the end of this sentence is me still feeling dissatisfied and itchy feet. So I said to her, yeah, I still need to do stuff.
Blake Boles (29:41)
Hmm.
James (29:58)
I kind of like to go to Asia. I always had this, yeah, like passion for like Japan and China. All of these things in my mind just sounded like exciting names and excited things and places. I was into manga and stuff like that. it just, yeah, Europe had bored me because I just realized after like, I don’t know, 10 countries.
I was just starting to see the same cathedral in the same center square in the same food, you know, there’s a different variety of cheese here. Now, now I can appreciate that. So I before people judge me and hate me. But at that point, I was like, this is yeah, like how many of how many of these things am I going to just repeatedly take photos of practically the same town square. ⁓ So I that was another reason I kind of cut the trip short because I was
Blake Boles (30:27)
Yes.
James (30:52)
I was realizing like, ⁓ I’m spending quite a lot of money, you know, because compared to India, I’m spending quite a lot of money to just, you know, buy food and things and I’m living on, on crap basically. ⁓ Camping would cost 30 euros a night in Italy just to put a tent up. And so for me, I wasn’t doing things like that. So it was uncomfortable. And I thought, right, I want to go back to Asia, but do something different to India.
I started telling my girlfriend about this and she’s like, what’s your plan? What’s your idea? And I was like, I like cycling. Maybe I just going to cycle there, you know, I mean, or go over there and then cycle. And I thought I was kind of waiting for an argument. She was the most patient in like wonderful person. And we never really argued, which is kind of crazy, but she didn’t argue. She just said like, yeah, cool. That sounds good. I, kind of like the idea of that.
Let’s do it together. That blew my mind. And I was incredibly excited and happy. And I think it was literally like a month. I was like, okay, let’s just book some flights. And we booked some flights for like a month later. Neither of us had any experience in any of this stuff. I had some of my camping gear left, you know, from from this last trip. I was like, we’ll take the camping gear. We better buy some bikes.
Blake Boles (31:54)
Amazing.
James (32:20)
So I bought this beautiful looking bike that I’d never cycled on before. And I got that, yeah, like kind of two weeks before we went. We did a couple of cycles. We probably cycled like 10 or 20 K maximum in the bad weather. You know, like we had a couple of periods where we were like, okay, let’s go for a cycle. That was the most prep we’ve ever done.
Yeah, ultimately, we arrived in Japan, think it’s Nariyata. I can’t remember the name of the airport in
And we literally dragged these bags off the like oversized luggage department, dragged them outside. And I was just sat there in the airport in Japan trying to put my bike back together and trying to see if these panniers fit on the rack that we bought.
And then I remember we got on the bicycle. We got all this stuff loaded on the back. There’s probably like 40 kilos or something on my bike. was ridiculous. ⁓ and I just got on the bike and it just, it wobbled like crazy. Obviously it was totally, I had no idea how to cycle a very heavily laden bike. And I remember just watching these security guys just staring at these Japanese security guys, all neat and tidy in their uniforms, just staring at us kind of wobbling and falling and like, you know, coming back on the foot and trying to get the 500 meters to the gate.
And, I was just thinking like, what the fuck have I done? Like, how, how am I gonna do you know, like, how the hell am I going to do this trip? It terrified me.
And yeah, like to cut it short, within a couple of weeks, were doing like 50k, then 60k, within a couple of months, we were doing 100k a day. Dropping random things at hotels and places, know, like abandoning as much stuff, posting things back, trying to like, you know, we never needed this, we never needed this, we never needed this.
Blake Boles (34:12)
Mm-hmm. typical story of the first time long distance bike trip.
James (34:18)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Blake Boles (34:23)
And how long was this adventure? And what countries did you go to?
James (34:27)
Eight months. I think it was eight months, eight or nine months. ⁓
We went so from Japan through China, arrived in China, ⁓ in Beijing with thick snow and I’d only packed hot Asian clothes because I had no idea that Asia also gets cold, down to Hong Kong, Vietnam, into Thailand, ⁓ well through Cambodia. And very quickly at that point, actually my, load of friends came to visit us. had a bit of a kind of two week holiday there with them.
And then I convinced them to take our bikes back to England because I saw that I’d learned a lot by then. And I realized the rest of the trip was going to be boats and islands and things like that. As it went down through Malaysia and Indonesia and across to Australia and Borneo and a lot of like random in between jumping about.
Blake Boles (35:23)
So I have a number of questions for you. One, did the relationship survive the trip? I’ll start with that.
James (35:26)
No.
Nice. You know, we had the best time. We were together 24 hours a day, which we’ve not been before, even though we live together because we work and things. And like I said, I’m the time. like I didn’t say, I’m a terrible traveler. This is the ironic thing. I’m an awful traveler. I bitch and moan and complain and sulk and all kinds of things and constantly despair.
And it turns out my girlfriend was an amazing traveler. She just dealt with everything with patience and calm and ⁓ it was beautiful. So, and we found it very easy. found it very easy. sort of were both very happy to do the same sort of similar things that we’re interested in. We would look at the map and be like, okay, there’s this thing here. That sounds pretty cool. Let’s try that. It all just worked. So yeah, we, we sort of popped along pretty nicely.
Blake Boles (36:27)
So I clearly know where this story goes next, which is you successfully scratched the itch to do long-term travel in Asia. You went back to the UK to settle down with your girlfriend who you had this magically wonderful travel experience with, which tells you a lot about someone. And you’ve been living there ever since.
James (36:36)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
⁓ Blake, your sweet, innocent beauty comes across. Yeah, that’s exactly how it went for her. Unfortunately, not for me. So yeah, we got back. I remember we just lived in a friend of mine’s house for probably three months, which much to the probably frustration of his girlfriend. I bought a van at that point. And so
Yeah, we, we had nowhere to live. Our stuff was all still in storage. My brother had taken the cat and we had no plan or no idea really. But by then we were super chilled because we’d just done this crazy trip together and we realized that nothing is important. And as long as you’ve got flip flops, you’re fine. ⁓ and so, ⁓ eventually, ⁓ my girlfriend got a job, ⁓ down in Portsmouth. We moved down to Portsmouth. We found a nice apartment.
I was going to go back to freelancing, which I sort of was very lazy to sort of start putting the feeders out there. And it wasn’t always easy for me to get work as a freelancer, which a lot of people don’t understand because they think it’s incredibly easy. And then
We yeah, basically we kind of modeled along for a good few months, but I was as usual, dissatisfied and not enjoying being back in Grey England. Until at one point we just had more and more discussions that were very sort of calm discussions, but we realized that
Basically, my girlfriend said to me, this was a wonderful trip. I’m incredibly happy that this happened. I’m really appreciative that you sort of encouraged this to happen because I might never have done this. One of the best things that ever happened in my life. And I definitely scratched the itch. And now I really want to go back to having a nice job. You know, having a shower every day and comfort. And she is now married and still in the same apartment that we found.
Yeah, back in something like 2009 and I don’t think the rent’s ever been put up so she’s lived a very like comfortable life there and done exactly what she aimed to and And it’s it’s kind of beautiful because sometimes we chat about it and laugh I instead Ended up moving to it
Blake Boles (39:29)
Because…
James (39:32)
Because I started when I was working for the company, there was the like the director or, you know, senior manager of the company was earning something about like 700,000 pounds a year, I think. And then in bonuses and pensions and share options was getting something like 2 million extra a year. And I used to see this guy in the office and I interacted with him. And I did not believe he was worth that in comparison to what all of us were being paid.
which was a hell of a lot less than that. and it used to really frustrate me. I was just basically, this was a massive logistics company and it wasn’t very bright or exciting as a kind of subject or topic. And I just realized that I was making other people a lot of money, but not being paid a lot of money. So I was dissatisfied by a lot of things like that. I also wanted to do things that felt
good. Like I, there’s a lot of things in the world that challenge me, like the status quo of things. And so I started getting interested in volunteering or like, what can I do that’s, ⁓ that kind of feels good where I feel like I’m really putting my effort into something that is having some kind of positive impact. And I, I, ⁓
did a lot of reading and research and trying to find good kind of volunteering options. And, you know, I looked into all of the kind of things of like, you know, going over to Africa and doing a thing. So part of it was totally selfish. I still wanted to just travel. But you know, I did actually want to do something quite nice as well. So I wasn’t so interested in, for example, going to Birmingham, England, and helping out homeless people there, which could have been perfect. I still wanted to get my like travel fix. But ⁓
I started reading more and more stuff about like, ⁓ charity that’s not necessarily good for the actual country and is not enabling and is not, and is slightly kind of patronizing and detrimental. And I got a bit confused and unsure. And I also found these kinds of volunteering options where you have to pay actually, you have to raise like 10,000 pounds to do it. And something about that didn’t feel super comfortable to me either. So I was a
at a bit of a loss. And then I found a website that advertised actual jobs that you could do. Because I’d even looked into just teaching English abroad. was like, at least I could use something that I actually have, that’s beneficial to other people that I’m, you know, rather than me just going and building a building in Africa where I have zero knowledge or expertise, and I’m sure that the locals are much more proficient than I am. So I ended up finding a graphic design job.
Blake Boles (42:15)
Mm-hmm.
James (42:22)
And it was for a small nonprofit that was developing information, resources and tools for earthquake, basically mitigating earthquake risk around the world. And I just read into their project and what they were doing and realized that the problem that they were trying to solve, I mean, it just felt like really interesting. And I believed in it.
And I thought, yeah, I want to help these guys. And I can actually use the skills I have. ⁓ so it just felt like, I’m bringing something that’s actually realistically beneficial. And it was initially, which, you know, help. I liked the idea a lot of being in Italy because I had sort of drifted through on the motorbike trip. I loved it. So, ⁓ I applied, I didn’t hear anything for about three months. And then I just got it out of the blue.
Can you come to an interview on Skype on like a video call on Friday? I went to that, chatted to them and it turned out I got on really well with the director of that. And he just said, okay, can you start on Monday?
Blake Boles (43:36)
So I feel like we are now, because that was in your late 20s, I believe, and…
James (43:41)
Yeah, that was like on the border of 30, I guess. Something like that.
Blake Boles (43:44)
Yeah. So this,
this is when you really seem to get into like the dirtbag rich phase of your life where you’re doing work that has like a social purpose, like work that has meaning behind it. You’re also making enough money to not have to work full time to still be able to travel, to be flexible. And you continue to be able to, ⁓ adventure. mean, the list of places you, told me that you lived kind of in the following.
James (43:56)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Blake Boles (44:13)
decade is extensive, but it’s a lot of warm countries, Costa Rica, Spain, Colombia, back to Asia, maybe Turkey or Morocco in the winters. I’m doing my, yeah, this is my ham-handed way of trying to condense the next decade of your life here. And it seems like another theme of your life was that you would ⁓ like,
James (44:18)
you
You’re starting to catch that pattern, aren’t you, bloke?
Blake Boles (44:44)
travel, you would enter into a relationship, you travel with a girlfriend, at some point you guys would break up, you travel someplace new, you’d enter into a new relationship. ⁓ I witnessed this cycle when we spoke before. So maybe ⁓ do yourself justice here and tell me what the next decade, like your 30s, ⁓ what it looked like.
James (45:07)
Perfect. Lovely. Yeah. So…
I was in Italy for five years. I loved it. I traveled a lot when I was there. went to like South Africa for a month, learned paragliding. I went to Arizona for a month, a friend’s van, drove around. So I was like working. I was abroad working. So I got to learn Italian. I got to travel around Italy and Europe. And I was still coming back to England a lot to try and maintain relationships with family and friends and things there. I felt like I had everything. had like consistent salary.
job that I enjoyed that felt purposeful and I was getting a lot of travel in and then yeah I started a relationship there.
⁓ at the end, I still felt like I’d stayed in one place then for five years or six years, which for me was a lot. but it was the reason I stayed was because it kind of gave me all of those things, but I still started to get itchy feet again. I had a lot of friends that worked with it from Costa Rica. They did a very good sales job on Costa Rica. Eventually my girlfriend who was Colombian, he just worked out for us. Like what about if we just moved to Costa Rica?
And I’m condensing things. You can imagine I could talk a lot about each of these things. But ultimately, we moved to Costa Rica. And I didn’t actually travel with many of my in my relationship. It was just really that one, in fact, which is surprising, because what I did more of was I moved to countries. So I moved to Costa Rica.
Blake Boles (46:38)
okay.
James (46:49)
because it was, it worked out really well for my, for my girlfriend at the time. But I also like, I really wanted to move to Costa Rica. So I was pushing it to happen as well. thought, wow, Costa Rica sounds exciting. That didn’t, that relationship didn’t work out for, for different reasons, like really varied reasons. But it was very amicable. And then I just found myself like, because of that, I traveled a lot around Central America, and a bit of South America while there.
Then I kind of came back, I bought a van, I got into van life. I traveled around Europe, I met a lovely lady in Spain, I ended up moving to Valencia. I kind of had the idea to do that anyway, with all of these things, I was going there because I thought I want to go and see what it’s like to live there. Now I’ve learned Spanish. And then it’s just kind of ideal that I met someone and okay, now I’ve got a really good reason to go there quicker. Moved to Spain, lived there like a year and a half.
Blake Boles (47:42)
Hmm.
James (47:46)
Throughout this, was doing kind of freelance work here and there, but honestly, I wasn’t working a lot. I was doing a lot of traveling and I just got used to budgeting, like living on like 10 pounds a day. And then I’d, you know, I’d saved money while I was working. I was always saving money. So I just got used to really budgeting, never spending money and then getting work where I could here and there. ⁓ so I was in Spain for a while. Then that relationship, stopped for a number of reasons. went to.
Yeah, I just I sort of kept doing that. I another van trip, met someone else. ⁓ I’ve actually got to like go through it in my mind now, like where I ended up next. But yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then obviously, every winter, I would try to be sort of around Europe in summer, I try and see friends and family, I really was trying to maintain those relationships, which for many years, and it was really, it was a struggle, because there was part of me that’s like, why don’t I just, yeah, move to the other side of the world.
Blake Boles (48:24)
I am seeing the pattern being established here.
James (48:44)
Like when I was in Costa Rica, my mom got ill and I found that stressful. The like, I really had to meet this idea of being very far away. And then what happens if someone what happens, you know, if there’s something going on back in Europe. So yeah, then I kind of shifted to like, okay, it’d be nice to be in Europe, because then it’s much easier. But in all the places, I want to go away for for winter, I just hated winter.
I liked the sun. yeah, then I did like six months in Turkey, six months in Morocco on different winters. And when I did another six months in Columbia.
And yeah, and I would have kind of sporadic relationships, but most of the time I was sort of between relationships and I was traveling and I was on my own, just a lot and traveling on my own a lot and living on my own. I would just rent apartments in like a tiny little village in Turkey and just live there and work. And everywhere I went, I would slowly start to like, make friends and kind of build community and get in. And then I would be leaving because my visa would run out.
So that pattern just went on throughout my 30s.
Blake Boles (49:58)
just want to diverge from the script a little bit here, James, because you’re really describing my experience in life also, even my very moment in life right now. I get to be in Europe for two years because I found a suite residency permit for, for us citizens. And, ⁓ and I’m, I’ve made such good friends here, mostly through the dance community. And, and also it’s, it’ll be very hard to get another residency permit like this again. and separately, you’ve told me that you’ve spent a lot of your life being obsessed with traveling and not working or avoiding commitment and having the sense of being free, having this total freedom. But you also recognize in other moments that this is, this is not enough. ⁓ and maybe I just want to open it up at this point and be like, what’s wrong with people like you and me? Why can’t we just like, you know, settle down to the nice relationship or be like, I’ve seen enough of the world at this point. I’m now going to stay here and, and, you know, get the fruits of commitment and rootedness. Like when you have more honest moments with yourself, how do you answer that question?
James (51:15)
Yeah, this is a part of the thing, like going back to when we talking about the start about like issues and like the last five years I’ve spent, I’ve just totally done a deep dive into, into kind of self awareness and, and interactions with others and communication. And I’ve just committed my whole life to that and through a couple of practices that I’ve come across that are teaching me a lot. And I think there are a number of reasons. I think one.
I grew up in a sort of family situation and a household that was very loving, very like, you know, all of the basics were provided for. ⁓ But it was also pretty stressful. There were a lot of big personalities. ⁓ It could be a pretty, ⁓ I could be in that house and pretty restless and feeling a bit overwhelmed and ⁓
I think that’s one factor. think there’s things like that and things like school and, you know, being kind of trapped in environments where I’d be pretty overwhelmed, uncomfortable. Like I realized like I’m very sensitive. And I think there’s one part of me that, that when I, when it gets a kind of sense of that or a taste of that just freaks out basically, and, and, wants to avoid it. I spoke to a friend a lot about mundanity and living a mundane life.
And even just like thinking about that, like living on kind of a housing estate somewhere and, you know, just having this very, very standard life that’s kind of very stereotypical. It makes me shudder. And I wonder how much of it is a kind of a fear and avoidance of states of feeling a little bit trapped and overwhelmed and not really having being able to have my voice. And so another part of that is like maintaining sort of commitment to connections and things like that, like
Even for me learning to be able to say what I want and what I don’t want, like to have some kind of boundaries, to have some separation, to have like a feeling of kind of autonomy and control of my life has often been difficult when in connection and relation to other people. And that can be in friends and can be in situations. So I think part of that would, you especially this kind of idea of like, yeah, I’m just gonna like bugger off and be on my own for a year.
Blake Boles (53:25)
Hmm.
James (53:38)
Because that’s very easy. can decide everything I like and I can, I don’t have to like, I can be meeting new people all the time, which is very easy. You don’t have to go into like many deep levels and actually have to, you know, deal with some like confrontational difficult things. So all of that would encourage me. And then I do think there is this idea of like having your cake and eating it. I want everything. Like I am, interested in everything.
And I’m passionate about everything. Like I can, you know, like I said before, I kind of got bored of Europe. Now I’ve done other things and I’ve kind of fed that taste. I can be anywhere in the world and I can just walk through a town and place and I can, I take loads of photographs, like ridiculous amounts of photographs to the point where it annoys people. ⁓ But it’s because everything is interesting, you know, shapes and colors and formats and compositions. I’m just interested in everything. And it’s the same with food. It’s the same with people. It’s the same with projects.
Blake Boles (54:30)
Mm-hmm.
James (54:37)
I’m always jumping to the next thing because I’m just super passionate and interested in like, wow, now I’ve just found out about a thing I never thought, you know, knew before. Now I’m totally disinterested in everything that I was doing before, because this is wild and exciting. And again, like, I’ll just finish that.
Blake Boles (54:44)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And so the, the world is like this, like this smorgasbord of potential experiences, connections, things to learn about things to dive deeply into. Uh, you know, why, why stop? Well, why, why limit yourself?
James (55:07)
Exactly, exactly that. Exactly that. And then I think what I’m sort of getting feedback from now from, you know, people I respect and people I’m learning from, and is this idea of like, you know, staying in something and, you know, going for this kind of depth and yeah, really kind of wringing out the juices of of mundanity and discomfort, like staying in discomfort.
Yeah, I think there’s just this sort of like, confrontational balance I have about like, am I avoiding or am I going towards? Because there’s always going to be a desire in me to see all the stuff. And there’s an unlimited amount of stuff. ⁓ Like even I used to I wasn’t even able to go into a restaurant and order the same thing twice, even if I loved it, because I would have to try every single thing that’s on the menu. So I
Blake Boles (55:57)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
James (56:01)
also wonder how much of this is like nowadays, you know, hearing a lot more about like ADHD and neurodivergence. I had no sort of concept and no, no inkling that I might be towards some of those like parts of the poll. And the more I’m sort of seeing now, like, even like low levels of autism and things like this.
Yeah, I also don’t know how much of that like factors in and I never knew about that those things before. So I think a lot of things I’ve been doing in my life, I had to try to create a comfort within me and not really knowing how to create that comfort. And so just trying all the things, all the lifestyles, all the ways of doing it, to try to give myself all of the things that I dream about and then constantly being bombarded with ideas from other people. And every place I go to, I meet new people who tell me about a new thing or a new way of living or a new like, ⁓ yeah, kind of purpose. And I just bounce around really not knowing.
Blake Boles (57:07)
It’s a scattershot approach, right? You could just choose one or two different role models or ways of living or philosophies and just go really deep into that. You can just be like, okay, Zen Buddhism, go, 20 years. ⁓ But it almost feels more secure and more reasonable in a certain way to just taste a little bit of many things. It’s almost like inoculating yourself. I just align with so much of what you’re saying. I just wanna put that out there. ⁓ Your struggles are my struggles. Please continue.
James (57:50)
Well, I mean, that’s what I was, ⁓ I was just saying to you shortly before we started the recording is, ⁓ yeah, hearing the people on the back ridge and hearing this podcast is like, even though I met loads of people while I’m traveling, it still feels rare to me that something is like my way of being could be sort of normal. I’ve always felt like the kind of black sheep or like having to find out things my own way, ⁓ from remote sources. And then.
Yeah, now like coming across more people who sort of it makes me realize that this could just be actually a normal lifestyle. It’s just it’s not normal because of what the average is in our society, or the cultures that we come from. ⁓ But I think, yeah, for me, it doesn’t, it’s not just about travel and living. Like I said, like, I like this analogy of the food, like my favorite meals are a buffet, because I want to try everything. So it feels like that’s exactly the same for me for every element of our life. There’s just, I have a way of being
that I want to try everything, like I’m interested in everything. Like I’m not someone who’s like fussy or needs to have like, repeat the same thing that actually makes me bored. And that would be the same. I remember doing these kind of these personality type, you know, charts and work throughs at work. And it became very clear that I’m the kind of person who loves, know, coming up with new ideas, that gets very passionate, excited. That’s where all my strengths lie and my weaknesses, or, you know, I don’t like to use the word weaknesses, but they do are that I’m
Blake Boles (59:07)
Mm-hmm.
James (59:22)
you know, the idea of like, you know, dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s and like, you know, going right to the end of a project. I find incredibly, yeah. Yeah.
Blake Boles (59:28)
Yeah, consistency, follow through, detail orientation, measuring everything.
James (59:36)
But I remember in those work things, there would be other people who did love that stuff. And so it just worked out. said, okay, you do this part and you do this part. We worked really well together. So it in that situation, it was just, it was just accepted and normal. But it’s felt a lot like in my life because there isn’t that kind of like just acceptance of this, you know, totally. It’s not just seen as normal and I’m fine. Like, okay, you’re going to take that path. That makes sense. It matches your personality. I felt a lot of the time I’m not just trying to convince myself. I’m also trying to convince others. That’s been the bit of the history.
Blake Boles (1:00:06)
Yeah. ⁓ James, you mentioned earlier that there have been these two practices that you’ve been focusing on, ⁓ in recent years. And I just wanted to make sure we, we named those for anyone who’s interested. So tell me if I’m getting it right. It’s circling and authentic relating. Okay. Give us the, the elevator pitch for each one of these. Cause I think most people have probably never heard of them.
James (1:00:22)
Yeah. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. ⁓
Perfect.
Yeah, perfect. Yeah, I, again, with the kind of like smorgasbord and trying everything I was even doing like Tai Chi classes in the local, above a garage in Pangborn when I was like 16 in this weird little English town. I went on to do like meditation and I you know, I I was interested in yoga, like I just try everything because I was always trying to sort of like, oh, this might fix something, you know, or this might give me something that one or it just seems beautiful and exotic. So
I’ve done a lot of different things. And then I came across during COVID, there was a Facebook advert for an embodiment conference. I didn’t know what that was. I went along because I was bored and it was COVID. And I did all of the sessions for like two weeks every day. And they’re all just totally different things about, yeah, building this kind of like connection to self and being able to like learn more about like emotional regulation and emotional maturity and
interception of feelings and sensations. And the thing that stood out to me the worst was called circling back then. It’s now called different things by different people. But the heart of it is staying in the present moment, like staying in the now, like not being with people, interacting with people, talking to people, sharing things with people, but not going too much into like what happened last week or in the past or what you’re worried about in the future.
trying to like just name what’s happening for you now. And these build up these skills of, of awareness of, I mean, even simple things like you can name to people like, my, my, my shoulders are really tense right now. My stomach’s really pulled in and I feel this discomfort in my solar plexus and I’m actually a bit scared right now. And I’m a bit uncomfortable and I don’t really know why and it’s not important to know why but being able to sort of name those things.
creates loads of self-awareness that means as I build that, when I’m in any situation with any people, whether it be at work or relationships or whatever else, I’ve got this massive capacity now to know what’s happening for me and not just be sort of… Like the perfect example of this is times you’ve probably had where you’ve sort of done things or said things or acted in a way.
Blake Boles (1:02:30)
Mmm.
James (1:02:50)
And then as soon you get out of the situation, you’re in with that person later on, you’re like, why did I say that? Why did I do that? Like, what was going on for me? I don’t know. Um, these practices for me build up all of that awareness and skills. So I start to know, and then I have, I can make sort of fundamental decisions in within the interaction that changes how I interact with people, how I feel with people, um, and how, like what I need for myself and how I interact with myself. So it’s.
⁓ Part of this is like how I treat myself within my own head, which used to be very hypercritical. ⁓ You know, this kind of perfectionism, all of this kind of stuff, like you’re looking for this external validation. A lot of that was, and like just being with discomfort, know, lot of the things I’ve done in my life are to avoid uncomfortable situations. ⁓ These practices like circling, like authentic relating, ⁓ like transformational connection, and the Relateful Company. These are, you know, I can give you all of the links for people that are interested. These practices.
Blake Boles (1:03:56)
Maybe you can just say something about authentic relating also.
James (1:04:00)
I’ve done less, less of authentic relating, but it’s of the same family. Both of them, both of them bring in the idea of a kind of mindfulness meditation, as in you’re trying to sort of see the thoughts and the things that are happening in your mind in the moment. And then they bring in this thing that’s often called like interoception, which is being able to like sense what’s happening within your body. So when I first did these practices, people be like, okay, what’s happening for you, James, what’s happening in your body? And I would just answer like, blackness. I don’t know, like, I don’t understand why you’re asking me this or what it you know, I just feel uncomfortable and awkward. Whereas now I can, ⁓ like I said, I can name the things that I kind of gave you as examples, I can be really aware of how my body is responding to the situation I’m in, which gives that capacity.
Blake Boles (1:04:47)
Yeah, this is such a bridge into a larger conversation, but I just wanted to say that I feel like people like you and me or other people that have appeared on this podcast, I feel like we’re pretty good at playing with possibilities in our brains and kind of imagining the, the places we’re going to go, the experiences we’re going to have, or even replaying those videos in our head afterward. And that’s just so pleasurable. It’s really rewarding. ⁓ the thoughts of of meeting new people, having different kinds of conversations. ⁓ this world of stimulation, that’s out there. And that’s really a ⁓ brain kind of intellectual based activity that is really separate from what you’re describing of just being aware of like, am I breathing rapidly? Or ⁓ am I holding tension somewhere and I’m not even aware of it, but then later my body hurts and I don’t know why. So I really feel like you’re describing a sort of, not necessarily an antidote, but like a very necessary compliment to navigating brains like ours.
James (1:05:58)
Yeah, yeah, I love how you just sort of, you know, brought that back through that summary. And at the same time, you reminded me of
Another like aspect I see is potentially like a kind of ⁓ unconscious fear of death. ⁓ This might feel like a little bit of an aside, but it’s pretty short. I think even when I was like really young, like I said, those Sunday afternoons, those wonderful, blissful Sunday afternoons, like just after an amazing meal that my mum had cooked. And just like sitting around, everybody’s relaxed, everybody’s, you know, in this kind of blissful, happy state.
And then being aware of the slow shift to Sunday night and like, I’ve got an eye on my shirt and do, I don’t know. Did I have to do some homework? I got no idea. And that that stuff slow fear and dread creeping in. made me so desperate to maximize the beautiful, wonderful, extremely good feelings. ⁓
And that just like it just blossomed and I wanted to do everything in life because I’m like, I’m gonna die at some point, like the time is ticking. And I had that ever since I was a kid, I’ve got to do everything, because I don’t know how long I’ve got. And it just, it just carried on. Like whenever I was in a situation that maybe was fairly comfortable, I’ve been like, yeah, but there’s, there’s a million things I’ve got to like, you know, how am going to do everything if I stay in this job for the next 10 years or stay in this place for this long?
⁓ And that’s also been a driving force. the reason I just wanted to say that is when you come into what you’re saying there, there’s been times now, where I’ve said to people when we’re talking about life and death and other things, ⁓ where I’ve said, I don’t mind now if I die. And that’s not in some kind of gruesome or like, negative aspect. It’s just I, I looked through my life and I’m like, wow, I’m so content with everything I’ve done. I feel like I’ve done
Yeah, I’ve like done everything that I needed to do to have a good life. And now I’m sort of coasting like everything else is like a massive bonus and plus. And the other thing is I would see people I’d be working with people who were like, yeah, you know, when I’m 60, whenever I retire, I’m going to do this thing. And I always have this feeling like, yeah, but why do you don’t get there and
really, you’re going to save it all up for just the end. Like I want to do it all now. And I want to know that that’s like in the bank and I’ve done that. And this has also been like a, yeah, this has been a huge driving force.
Blake Boles (1:08:33)
Yeah, that’s security.
Yeah. Sometimes people ask me because I have been so involved in the alternative education movement. They’re like, were you homeschooled or go to an alternative school? said, no, I went to very typical public schools. ⁓ but there is this, this connection, what you were describing about the Sunday afternoon turning into Sunday evening, which turns into Monday morning. ⁓ for me, there was definitely something that, that school represented, ⁓ which
This this form of a cage, this form of unfreedom or kind of like society bearing down upon you with its unreasonable commandments for what it thinks you should be doing. You you’re not taking art class, you have to take math class. And I think there’s something pretty powerful in there for me, which maybe you’re calling this this like kind of fear of death or fear of a cage, perhaps that and you combine that with living in a moment in life where there’s like National Geographic magazines showing you these beautiful photographs of faraway lands. And then all of sudden, especially in the 90s, ⁓ all of a sudden there’s the internet and it’s not just like books and magazines, but it’s like, we can, there are so many places to go, so many places to explore. And then all of a sudden airplane tickets become a lot cheaper thanks to deregulation and other factors, kind of the world politically opening up in the 90s. And it’s like, that’s a perfect brew for, for just feeling like, why would I be restrained in this conventional domestic existence when I could be out there seeing things, doing things, meeting people, having novel experiences? Like just, it’s not even a fair fight.
James (1:10:28)
Yeah. Yeah. And maybe if I’d have grown up in Italy or Costa Rica, maybe I wouldn’t have had this thing, but I also have this wonderful like, ⁓ you know, encouragement of gray, cold, miserable England. And I love being outside, you know, I, never liked, for me being inside has always been a bit stuffy, a bit claustrophobic. Like I want, I want air. want, I want big space above me. I want to run around. And being in countries where like for half the year, that’s not really what wonderful thing to do. Yeah, we just go to, I would get off planes, like even my first trip ⁓ to like Greece, I remember just getting off the plane and just feeling that like massive warm, you know, embrace of the hot air. And I was, I just felt blissful. So a lot of it has been chasing kind of a, you know, that blissful, comfortable state. And then when it comes to the, it was interesting what you said about the unschooling.
Yeah, for me, felt school was forcing me to do things I didn’t want to do. That was basically my feeling of school. I thought I was unintelligent. I thought, you know, I just kind of scraped through and did the minimum. I was very unmotivated for most of the things. And since I left school, the way I wanted to learn was like, had, you know, my geography was terrible. Don’t ask me about a part in the world I’m not into because I can’t tell you a thing.
But I’ll go to a place and then I’ll, I’ll literally cycle around, you know, the Balkan countries. And now I can tell you where they all are. I can tell you, you know, like how to get from here to here. I can even like picture in my mind the city streets and where to go to the Laundrette. Like, that’s how I learned stuff. And I learned Italian because I moved to Italy, I learned Spanish because I moved, you know, was like traveling around South America. So I’ve
Even when was a kid, the same as when you were saying about National Geographic, like David Attenborough’s nature shows were my like, heaven, you know, I would, that was like my happy place. So the sitting watching these nature shows of just, you know, people diving to these beautiful seas and seeing all these colorful animals. I don’t know if you’ve ever, you know, swum in most of the English sea, but you’re going to see some, some brown and not much else.
So obviously I was like, yeah, I’m desperate to go to the places where it’s colorful and light and bright and there’s things to see. ⁓ And that’s how I’m gonna learn about the world.
Blake Boles (1:13:00)
Well, this has taken a really interesting turn. James, we did not get a chance to talk about money and your relationship to money and how you manage it. The purpose aspect, usually I’m focusing on money time and purpose, but this took us to some really interesting different landscapes of conversation here. Just the fact that you’re living someplace and not paying money for it right now. You have a very interesting housing situation. But I think we need to put a bow on it at this point, and maybe we just need to get back together for a follow-up conversation at some point.
James (1:13:33)
Well, you can tell how excited I am. Like these are my favorite topics, Blake, especially talking to you, who actually can resonate and has been through the same things. So yeah, I would love that. I would love that. I could tell too many stories and I would love to share with you and get your like insight as well about your own life and how you’ve done.
Blake Boles (1:14:04)
confident it will happen. James, is there any place that you post stuff online in case people are interested in ⁓ seeing what you’re up to?
James (1:14:14)
Well, as you can imagine, you know, like the way I’ve sort of described myself, I’m terrible and disorganized and I have a new website every couple of years and then I forget about it and abandon it. ⁓ so what I will do is I will use this as an inspiration for me to put something together somewhere online and I’ll give you that link later so that when you share this, you can put it in potentially the comments. Yeah, I’m doing stuff like coaching people one-to-one now and doing online stuff.
Blake Boles (1:14:36)
Fantastic.
James (1:14:42)
I can probably put something together and people can find things.
Blake Boles (1:14:46)
bespoke homepage for dirtbag rich listeners. ⁓ Fantastic. Okay, James, thanks so much for coming on the show.
James (1:14:50)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, thanks so much, Blake.