Kaya Lindsay is a 32-year-old climber, filmmaker, vanlife veteran, and accidental gym owner in Moab, Utah. (onechicktravels.com / @onechicktravels)
In her early twenties, Kaya fell in love with bouldering at a Santa Cruz gym, met a tattooed vegan woman with a Sprinter van, and realized she could climb full-time. She built out a van, hit the road, and spent four years chasing perfect weather and fleeting friendships from Bishop to Squamish to Indian Creek. Along the way, she hustled together a dirtbag media career: filming, blogging, scoring gear deals, and slowly building a name with her One Chick Travels YouTube series, which spotlighted the unseen women shaping the climbing world.
Kaya talks about living on $1,000 a month, the hidden privilege of trust fund dirtbags, and the unspoken rules of social capital in the outdoor scene. She describes what finally pushed her off the road: constant vigilance, repeating the same small talk, and never knowing if her community would stick around when the rain came. Kaya also describes why settling down in Moab felt like upgrading to a bigger container, not a smaller one.
We get into how a base jumper literally fell out of the sky and became her business partner, what it’s like running Moab’s first climbing gym, and how building a rooted, weather-independent community has changed her life. Kaya also opens up about the neurodivergent undertones of dirtbag culture, the bittersweet question of what happens to aging climbers, and how it feels to finally walk into the grocery store and see someone who knows your name.
Full transcript: dirtbagrich.com/kaya
Recorded in February 2025.
Transcript
This is an AI-generated transcript. Typos and mistakes exist!
Blake Boles 00:00
Kaya Lindsay, welcome to Dirtbag Rich.
Kaya Lindsay 00:03
Thank you. Glad to be here.
Blake Boles 00:05
Tell me about the youth that flock to your driveway every season.
Kaya Lindsay 00:09
The youth that flock to my driveway every season have one goal in mind, and it is to access my shower.
Kaya Lindsay 00:20
Uh, no, that’s not true. Uh, they do have, they’re very goal oriented, uh, people, um, they are looking for shelter, they’re looking for a place to do laundry. They’re looking for a place to have dinner, uh, dinner parties. Uh, but ultimately they are looking for a refuge from the harsh world after, uh, long, hard days of rock climbing because I happen to live in the Mecca of rock climbing. Um, one of the Meccas of crack climbing in this world, um, Moab, Utah, which is just about an hour away from, uh, some of the best, uh, single pitch crack climbing in the world.
Blake Boles 01:02
Can you break down the demographics of the people showing up in your driveway, kind of age, maybe background, like where they come from? Um, yeah, maybe how long they’re, they’re living this kind of lifestyle that that brings them back to your driveway over and over again.
Kaya Lindsay 01:19
It really varies, um, when word gets out that you’ve got a big driveway, uh, everybody wants a piece of it. And so, um, it really varies.I have some locals or not some locals, some return guests that are pretty consistent, um, you know, they’re in their like mid thirties to late thirties, uh, that come every year and, uh, they are like very goal oriented. They’re like, I’ve got a thing. I’m figuring this out. Um, but I also have, you know, one-offs and people who are, you know, just traveling around for the season, uh, and they can be young, uh, I think like as young as like 18 or 19, uh, and as probably the upper limit is more like in their mid forties, um, they’re usually unwashed, which is why they show up at my house, they, they often have dogs. Um, they love food. They love sitting around shooting the shit. these party people.
Blake Boles 02:25
Are they drinking a lot of beer? Are they rowdy?
Kaya Lindsay 02:28
I would say of the outdoor communities that exist, they are on a lower end spectrum of party people. They do love a good party, they do love a good event. People will drink beer and have tequila stashed and stuff like that. But I would not say that climbing dirtbags as a rule are overwhelmingly party people.When I think of heavy partiers who are involved in the outdoor community, I think of boaters, river people or the highlining, base jumping communities that also flock to this area. I would say that on the scale of party, the people right above climbers are those two groups and the people right below, low being less, is probably hikers, through hikers.
Blake Boles 03:23
Um, just innocent babes in the woods.
Kaya Lindsay 03:26
Yeah, just innocent babes though. They can’t carry the weight. They’re not gonna They can’t afford the weight
Blake Boles 03:33
When we previously spoke, you said that just the night before you had eight people over, they’re all living out of their cars. You had a potluck dinner, you were bleaching each other’s hair. That sounds lovely.It sounds like a gathering of friends, but these are all transient people. So it must be an ever shifting group. Is that right?
Kaya Lindsay 03:52
Yeah, I think that’s why it’s hard for me to kind of give you a, like a straight answer on who are these people because they change so frequently, like, you know, uh, they’re usually fit. That is definitely one, uh, common denominator is people who are in very good shape because they have spent, you know, the majority of their time climbing.Um, but yeah, it does, it does transition. We, that was a lovely night, but that is just one of many, you know, like I have worked pretty hard to try and create an environment where my friends know that they can come and stay. And like, I want them to come and hang out with me and, you know, have dinner parties and talk about the weather and the climbing and, you know, the drama that’s going on in the, you know, in the climbing community right now and, you know, bleach each other’s hair and go out for, you know, go out. We do have parties. I’m not trying to say the dirtbag community is like an aesthetic community or a seach community. They are, they are partiers. But yeah, I guess on the scale of party, they’re in the middle.
Blake Boles 04:53
mid partiers, um, you have become a hub in the Moab community, both your house, but also the climbing gym that you’ve started, which is about a year old as of this recording, um, tell me a bit about the climbing gym and where it came from and what motivated you to invest in that.
Kaya Lindsay 05:14
The climbing gym is really funny because I didn’t know that I wanted to be a climbing gym owner until about two months before we purchased the building. So I live in Moab, Utah, big climbing mecca. There’s no climbing gym here. And I had moved here after 2020 trying to figure out I didn’t want to live on the road anymore. I had been living in my van for four years and I was like, I think I need to reset, do something else. And so I came out here and was kind of just a little bit floundering, not really sure what I wanted to do. And then I had a little bit of a conversation with myself and I was like, what do I want? I want to be here. I want to be surrounded by community. I want to move my body. I want to do work that is important, that is meaningful to me. And what do those things have in common? And I was like, well, I really just want to work at a climbing gym.Well, there’s no freaking climbing gym in Moab. But I knew of a girl who was working on a woman who was working on starting a climbing gym in Moab. Her name is Britt Zail. And I reached out to her, I think in November of 2022. And in February of 2023, we had purchased a building. And I reached out to her in November just saying like, hey, what do you think? Do you need a business partner? And she was kind of like, maybe. Like I don’t know. We knew each other tangentially in the way that you know everybody tangentially in Moab when you’re when you live in a small town. And people who live in small towns will get this that it’s like, oh, yeah, like, you know this person, but you’re not like friends with them. You just know everything about them because you live in a small town. And so, yeah, she kind of was like, oh, maybe let’s let’s talk about it. And then I got a tip on a building in December. And we went and looked at the building and then she was kind of like, oh, shit, like, yeah, this this could go. And then we started talking about like trying to find investors. And miraculously, in January, we a guy literally fell out of the sky because he’s a bass jumper, you know, was bass jumping and ended up meeting Brit and her partner and staying with them. And they got to talking about the business. And when Brit proposed this idea to me, she was like, oh, yeah, there’s this guy that I know who’s kind of interested in, like, you know, and knows stuff about business. Like, let’s just talk to him about maybe like trying to find investors. And we thought it was going to be extremely casual. And so we like brought him over to the house. And actually, I was having a dinner party with like seven people. So like very similar to the conversation we had the other night. And like we kind of like went into the living room. I have kind of a big house and select the kitchen and a living room. Like you can hear everything if you’re standing in the kitchen, but you can’t see anyone if you’re in the living room.
Kaya Lindsay 08:38
And so like we were in the living room having this like conversation and it became very apparent very quickly that he was like, I want to give you guys money. And everyone was in the kitchen, just like silent, like standing there, like just trying not to like be a nuisance, but also wanted to hear this conversation.And so, yeah, he basically decided that he wanted to invest in us and our dream that for me was extremely new. And we told him that the people who were selling were going to sell the building in January. And that, you know, we wanted to put the gym in and he said, okay, I’ll buy it. And in February, we had a building beautiful story. Yeah, for me, it was incredibly like whirlwind insane. Like I was like, maybe I should like really invest in like this idea of opening a climbing gym. And then like three to four months later, I was like, wow, okay, I have a building. Now I have to build a climbing gym.
Blake Boles 09:38
Your angel investor, yeah, actually came out of the sky.
Kaya Lindsay 09:41
He literally, yeah, fell out of the sky. It was crazy.
Blake Boles 09:45
Um, so, uh, something I really want to dig into with you Kaya is this idea of community and the need for community, how, how we create it. Uh, I want to go back first to earlier in your dirtbag years and, and try to get a sense of what was motivating you at that point. So feel free to go back to wherever your, your wanderlust or your, your passion for the outdoors or climbing started, and then kind of walk me through how you, you entered into these four years of living out of your van.
Kaya Lindsay 10:17
Yeah. I was a, it starts and ends the climbing gym. I started climbing in a climbing gym in Santa Cruz, California. Shout out to Pacific Edge if anyone is listening that knows that gym because it’s a wonderful gym. And, you know, I was dating a guy at the time. I think I was maybe in my early twenties, like 22, 23. And I was learning to climb and was falling in love with it, falling in love with bouldering. It was like the most fun I’d ever had.And I was feeling strong in my body. And there was this woman who climbed near me and she had like a lot of tattoos and a lot of piercings and she was very cool and she’s a vegan and she could climb, you know, V five. And at the time I could only climb like V three, you know? And so she was very, I was very impressed by her. And she told me that she bought a Sprinter van and was going to turn it into like a little home and go to Bishop for the summer or the winter. I can’t remember. She went for a season to go to Bishop and live in her car and climb full time. And I remember feeling like I was struck by lightning because I was like, you can just do that.
Blake Boles 11:49
Mm-hmm
Kaya Lindsay 11:50
like what like you can just do that like the the possibility had never even occurred to me um yeah so it really opened up my world and from that moment i was like this is the thing this is what i am going to do i am going to buy a sprinter van i’m going to build it out i’m going to live in it and i’m going to travel the country going rock climbing
Blake Boles 12:16
Where were you at that point? Had you just finished college? If so, what did you study? What were you doing for work?
Kaya Lindsay 12:24
Yeah, so I have a really unorthodox education background, but at the time, I took a year off after high school to work, and then I took a year to travel, and so then I was kind of in this place of wanting to go back to school, but I didn’t want to leave because I was living with my parents at the time, and I didn’t want to leave my home because I have a good relationship with my parents and a really good relationship with my sister, and also, if you know Santa Cruz, it’s absolutely gorgeous. It’s a lovely place to live, so I didn’t want to leave.I was looking for alternative education programs, and I found one called Goddard, which is a college in Vermont, and at the time, this was very cutting edge, I think, and now after post-COVID, it seems a little bit more mundane, but it’s a self-guided study program that’s also remote, and so you go to this college, and you’re there for 10 days, and you attend seminars, and you work with a professor, you get assigned a professor, and then the professor helps you design your curriculum, and you have to rent a certain number of books, and you have to make something, and so then your school year is broken into a series of blocks, and I can’t remember exactly how many weeks, but it’s like, during that time, you have to create, you have to write a paper and create something, and it is to forward your college degree, and so this dovetailed nicely with my desire to build out a Sprinter van because I decided that my senior project would, and my project for my degree would be to build out a Sprinter van, and I had to show proof of knowledge, I had to show proof of learning, and so that was a series of YouTube videos and a series of blog posts that were incredibly in depth, and that ended up being, and then I wrote a paper about the concept of home and travel, which I hope never ever sees the light of day because I think it was incredibly trite because I was 23 and didn’t know anything about home or travel, but yeah, so these all kind of culminated at the same time where I was like, I want to have this Sprinter van, I need to finish my college degree, I’m going to turn this into my education, and the final product is, the thesis product is my van, which I will drive to my college and present because at the end of your semester, at the end of your time there, you present what you have created.
Blake Boles 15:31
Do you know anyone else who has gotten a degree in building out a van or or anything even remotely related to that?
Kaya Lindsay 15:40
I never even thought about it like that. I just, I do have a degree in building out a van. No, I don’t know anyone like that.I mean, I know people who are crafts people who like go to school for like, you know, electrical engineering and stuff like that. But no, I think my degree is actually somewhere. I don’t know. It’s not hanging up because why would it be? But I think it’s, it’s actually like interdisciplinary studies. Like I have a degree in like interdisciplinary studies in community education. I think that’s like what the total name is.
Blake Boles 16:12
I did something very similar and I also wrote a senior thesis paper that should never see the light of day.
Kaya Lindsay 16:18
What did you do?
Blake Boles 16:19
I designed my own degree in alternative education theory.
Kaya Lindsay 16:24
Wow, where did you go to school?
Blake Boles 16:25
at Berkeley and I had to like fight for this for the right to get this this thing called the individual major which is like for people who absolutely would not fit into any other box even the interdisciplinary studies box so that’s funny I’m there with you with having like an extremely unmarketable bachelor’s degree and is this where you’re you’re you said you wrote some extensive blog posts and you made some some videos about doing this is this where your sort of online journalism career got kick-started also
Kaya Lindsay 16:57
Yes, a hundred percent. Um, I made a video, like I recorded the entire process of building out the van from start to finish, and I did like a time lapse and, uh, I posted that video on YouTube and I think it has something like almost 4 million views now, which I know now is not really impressive, but at the time was like groundbreaking, you know, that was back when the things only got, you know, 300,000 views or something.Um, and so yeah, that really kicked off my like online career of like blogging and writing. Um, and so yeah, from there I hit the road.
Blake Boles 17:39
And what does hit the road look like? Where were you traveling? Were you just climbing? Or were you also doing other activities?Were you taking time off to do non-climbing things? Were you the person showing up in other people’s driveways?
Kaya Lindsay 17:54
I have been the person showing up in other people’s driveways for many years, so I definitely feel the need to pay it back. It culminated in a six month trip with my partner at the time, and at the end of that six month trip around the country, it became obvious that he did not want to live in the van and travel, and so I ended the relationship, which was very painful, because it was my first real long-term relationship that was with someone who was very lovely, and I ended up being very heartbroken but hitting the road, and the first place I went was Joshua Tree.I was completely alone, and I met a woman at Climber Coffee, which is a park service organized liaison between park rangers and climbers, and there’s free coffee, and climbers show up, and you can talk with them and get beta on routes and stuff like that, but at the time I didn’t know any of that, I didn’t even know what was going on. I just knew there were a bunch of people around my age gathering, so I kind of like wandered up and I talked to this woman who I still am in contact with, I still follow on Instagram and know, and she invited me to Indian Creek in Utah, which is the climbing area I now live outside of, and I had never left the state alone. I was from California, I had never driven anywhere on my own, and I remember driving to Utah, and the roads out here are so empty compared to growing up as a Californian with wall-to-wall traffic all the time, and I just remember being like, where is everyone?
Blake Boles 19:58
You were traveling like in between climbing meccas and did you take any time off to do anything that was not climbing or were you like really singularly focused for these years?
Kaya Lindsay 20:12
I was pretty singularly focused, um, I, so I didn’t know anything about trad climbing when I came out to Indian Creek and if you don’t know what trad climbing is, it’s a short for traditional climbing, which is just, um, instead of clipping preexisting gear that’s already been drilled into the wall, you have to place your own. Uh, and so I came out here with no knowledge of trad climbing or crack climbing in general and, uh, just kind of like threw myself into the community here and was like, I don’t know how to do anything, but I can give you a belay.And I was kind of welcomed with open arms and people were like, yeah, sure. Uh, and I learned how to do this thing. And that was for me, another huge turning point where it like, I realized that I was in love with this sport. And so, yeah, I pretty much didn’t do anything else for four years.
Blake Boles 21:07
How did you make money? It sounds too simple.
Kaya Lindsay 21:11
It’s not yeah, it’s not too simple. I mean, it was a simple life.But yeah, so I Before I had left and was Working on my degree before I had left home I was Starting my own business as a kind of like freelance social media marketer I my dad is has been self-employed his whole life or nice whole life, but my whole life and He’s a he’s an artist. He’s a digital artist and so I was kind of following in his footsteps a little bit and like setting up my own clients and Doing people’s social media for free. Not for free. Sorry social media for money And you know, I had a very good system because I think it was at the time that nobody really understood social media But everybody saw its value and I was like young enough that people were like, oh this person obviously understands it and And it helped that I was gaining a lot of traction on Instagram and YouTube At the time so people were like, oh, yeah Like she’s obviously doing something right and so I was able to you know Write blog posts for people write their Instagram posts right there. So like the Facebook posts that kind of stuff and Then like, you know when you’re on the road and you have a lot of time, you know jobs kind of come to you You know, and I think things like I was able to post some videos I think with outside TV and I think I made a little bit of money from that and you know Then people were like, oh, I need photos for this thing and I’ll pay you for the photos and so I was able to like slowly develop a photo career and Obviously on top of my videos and I was kind of hustling too like I wanted to start making like more Interesting blog posts and interesting videos. And so I tried to seek out some sponsorships Then I got paid for for like making a video of me doing something cool There’s a very fun one of me climbing castle tin with my friend Danny and Yeah, we got like a bunch of gear and I think I got like $800 or something like that, you know Which at the time I was like score Yeah, I’m rich
Blake Boles 23:36
a mixture of kind of random freelance opportunities in the media and the online worlds plus just like things that fell into your lap because you were meeting enough people that eventually and the online presence that you were you were building yeah so you were able to earn can you can you describe like roughly how much money you think you were living off of during these dirtbag years
Kaya Lindsay 24:03
Yeah, that’s so hard to say, um, not very much. I think like at any given moment, I probably had around $2,500 in my bank account at the most.
Blake Boles 24:17
Mm.
Kaya Lindsay 24:18
Um, maybe like $5,000 if things were good. Um, I mean, I think that gas was a huge expense. Like, I think it’s bigger than we, than like dirt bags are willing to admit.Like if you’re going to pay rent in a room, you save a lot on gas. If you’re rent, if you live in a car, your rent is gas. Cause it costs me, you know, I think it costs me $300 to drive from. You know, Moab to Squamish, which is one of the, you know, the pilgrimages. And then when you’re there, you’re filling up every couple of, you know, yeah, I guess like every week or so, cause you’re driving around a lot. Um, I think it’s really, I don’t want to give you a number too specific. Cause I, it’s, I feel like I’m really pulling it out of my ass, but I do think like maybe living on around a thousand dollars a month, should I think of like groceries plus gas plus, you know, sundries, you gotta pay for a shower, gotta pay for, you know, new climbing shoes when they blow out or get a resole, you know.
Blake Boles 25:33
Is this the period when you started doing the one chick travels YouTube series?
Kaya Lindsay 25:39
Yes. So, um, my first season in Joshua Tree, my real first season in Joshua Tree, I kind of, um, I had this perception before I hit the road that I was going to be like the only woman out there, like the only solo woman. And I was a little bit nervous about that fact.Um, but then I realized not only was I wrong, um, I was like, I was surrounded by women who I perceived as doing the dirt bag thing with so much more grace and finesse than most of the dudes that I was surrounded by. You know, I mean, like if I’m, you know, to be honest with you, like I was hanging out with a couple of guys, um, my first couple of seasons and one of them had worked a tech job for many years and was living off of like, you know, his tech job savings. Uh, another one, his parents bought him a Sprinter van and then gave him a credit card to like live off of while he was traveling. And then another one I didn’t find out until later because his, his mom called me and was like, Oh, you know, like he hasn’t used his credit card in a while. Like, is he okay? And I was like, what do you mean he hasn’t used his credit card? And she’s like, Oh, well the credit card that we gave him, we’re tracking his expenses just to make sure that he’s still alive.
Blake Boles 26:55
Oh my gosh. And I was like, were you… The trust fund’s dirtbags. Yeah. They’re real. I know.
Kaya Lindsay 26:59
Like, are you all kidding me? Like, and they were living, you know, like, you know, like holes in their clothes, eating out of the garbage, like, you know, like super thrifty, like kind of living this experience.And there was me who was like, you know, like I’m scraping by and like I have this van that I built with my own two hands. And, you know, I’m surrounded by these like young dudes who are just like, you know, pretending to live this dirtbag lifestyle in reality. They’ve got like all this like security and money. And I was just like, and it seems to me that like that was the same, it was very, a common story with like the other women that I was surrounded by who like were really, really scrapping it and really doing like the dirtbag thing. But then, you know, paradoxically, we’re not getting recognized for it. And like, we’re a little bit scorned for, you know, being like, you know, caring about the fairy lights in their car or, you know, wanting to take a shower, you know.
Blake Boles 28:02
Yeah, you, you told me before that this there’s this perception that you have to be doing the dirt bag thing all the time and be doing it hardcore. And that’s how you become this real kind of capital D dirt bag climber.Um, you know, I discovered you through one chick travels and your interviews were, were excellent, like casual and deeply informative at the same time. And definitely are one of the models for, for these interviews that I’m doing. Um, right now, yeah. What I’m curious, you, you clearly derived a lot of purpose from the climbing itself and being a member of the climbing community, but you were also producing these videos and these blog posts and, and other media, um, you know, how important was that to you to also be telling other people’s stories, you know, to be like chronicling and, and, and sharing narratives, um, and, and, you know, bringing this bringing a window to this world to, to many hundreds of thousands of other people.
Kaya Lindsay 29:01
I mean, that was, it was huge for me. I think like I came into the dirtbag scene and immediately felt a lot of the hypocrisy that gets kind of tossed around from like any, I would say like male dominated culture and especially like this micro culture or this microcosm, you know, and like I wanted to showcase, you know, like if you look at almost any guidebook, there’s a woman on the cover, you know, and like there’s so many photos of women used in climbing media to promote women in the sport. But, you know, in the reality, like it’s like women don’t make up a huge portion of climbers.They don’t make up a huge portion of first ascensionists. There is like, you know, gatekeeping knowledge around, you know, big wall climbing and first ascents. And I do think it’s getting a lot better, but like there is this cultural knowledge of dirt bagging that men have and have had, you know, historically back into the fifties, you know, and that like to access it, it women usually have to access it through their boyfriends, you know? And so I kind of saw this like hypocrisy of like, you know, these guys that are like obviously getting this like capital D dirtbag treatment and then people would look at me with my Sprinter van and like I had so many people in the early days be like, oh yeah, her dad just built her outer Sprinter van. And, you know, like a lot of real scorn and like because I was doing social media stuff and because I was taking photos and because I was trying to tell these stories, like there were a lot of people who really didn’t like me right off the bat. I think also social media was going through like a bit of a renaissance with its like influencer base where it was like people were experiencing this concept of influencers for the first time and we’re like, ugh, that’s so like, you know, trashy and so cringy and like just like something to be scorned. And so I received a lot of that. And I think like that was so at odds with what I was seeing, which were all these women who were just like really passionate about climbing and the lives they wanted to live and were crafting such beautiful lives for themselves out of this.And I was just like, it’s so important to me to tell these stories because no one else is going to and I’m here and I’m the only one who’s seeing this, right? And so like, honestly, like I miss doing my one chick travel series because every single one that I did, I would like, it was like a micro love story because I would fall in love with my friend, like again and again, just being like, this person is so amazing. This person has come from such challenge and has like tried so hard and like has crafted such a beautiful life for themselves. Like, I’m so impressed by them and it would happen every single time. And so yeah, like for me, that was huge. That was like so central to what I was trying to do and what I was trying to convey.
Blake Boles 32:17
Mm-hmm. So I want to connect this period to the, your modern era now. And you wrote this post in 2019 called choosing to leave full-time van life. And this, you have this great line, the dirt back container became too small. And you talk about just sitting in parking lots a lot of the time.You’re talking about malfunctioning vehicles, about really hostile climates, about, um, always getting kicked out, um, of places, whether it’s a, a campground or a BLM land or, um, never, yeah, well, tell me what, uh, what brought you to this point of being, you know, from that first moment in Santa Cruz when you’re like so inspired and you want to get out there and you want to do all of this and then you’re doing it and you’re sharing stories and then something’s changes. What was that?
Kaya Lindsay 33:11
Yeah, I mean, I think, I guess I think about this a lot because of where I am now and where I have been. But yeah, the dirtbag container became too small, was inspired by this feeling of restriction that I started to have when I was, you know, dirtbagging. And I think it’s really difficult for people to admit to themselves that dirtbagging is limiting because we grow up with this, you know, perception that like leisure time and travel and seeing new places and meeting new people and having these wild experiences is like the ultimate form of luxury, right? Like, you know, you’re like, oh, if you can just do whatever you want, every day, you’ve you’re basically retired, you’re living like the perfect life. And so I think that people hold on to that perception when they’re climbing and being like, I am living the perfect life. This is the best version of me.And to be fair with you, I think it is there is like pieces of that that like, the dirtbag life that I will take with me that I have had incredible privilege to experience, you know, like incredible luxury, you know. But I do think that after a while, having to introduce yourself to people over and over again and explain your story begins to make you feel very unseen and very alone. And like, the conversations are almost all the same, you know, because people do have to naturally fall off the circuit, you know, the dirtbag circuit for jobs, you know, they run out of money, they find a girl, they meet a boy, they want to stay in the town, they get a dog, you know, something happens with their family, they got to go home, right? Like people can’t like, there are natural reasons why people would fall off the dirtbag circuit. And so people do and so you lose your friends along the way. And I think another thing that frustrated me was that I didn’t want to have all of my friendships be dependent on the weather.
Blake Boles 35:34
Hmm
Kaya Lindsay 35:35
You know, because there is something like literally fair weather friendships because, you know, climbers are seeking that endless summer. You know, they’re seeking the endless perfect crisp temperatures. And as soon as it rains somewhere, they’re like, Oh, it’s going to be wet and rainy for three days here. Let’s drive off to, you know, somewhere else where it’s not. And, you know, I was so sick of having to like chase that community around and be like, Oh, well, if I want to be with my friends, then I need to go where they’re going. And it it almost started to become like a little bit less about what I wanted and more about what everybody else wanted.You know, there was this feeling of like, Oh, what’s everyone else doing? Like, what’s what? Where are we going? What’s the vibe? What are people feeling like? And I it just started to feel so restrictive because if I stayed and the weather was bad, then I’d be forced to like, you know, make new friends and try and meet people and make climbing partners. And that concept, you know, at one at one time would have been so thrilling was exhausting and isolating.
Blake Boles 36:44
I want to see if I can reframe what you’re saying and if it’s still accurate to your experience. Was it too feast and famine for you?Like when it’s good, it’s really good and all your, you know, all these people are together. You’re sharing meals. You’re in this beautiful place. Like it’s like, whoa, deep, uh, deep purpose, deep memories. But then like you said, when the weather turns bad or your time’s up or the snow starts to fall, then it all disperses and it feels like it was some sort of, you know, mirage.
Kaya Lindsay 37:16
Hmm, that’s an interesting way to put it. I don’t I Think I would more describe it as it was a feast all the time
Blake Boles 37:27
And like, your stomach is like full.
Kaya Lindsay 37:30
full.
Blake Boles 37:32
Hmm.
Kaya Lindsay 37:32
you know? And, but that also makes it sound like I wasn’t big enough to contain it. Whereas I did feel like I was just getting, you know, itchy. Like I was like, it’s this container is too small. Like it doesn’t fit anymore.You know, like I, it’s really hard to set up roots and I, I didn’t want to admit to myself how important that was to me. It’s really, really hard to grow roots. It’s really hard to grow community. It’s really hard to like commit to one thing other than climbing when you’re on the road, you know? And like after a while, one more dinner party in a cold van, uh, you know, while the weather, because the other thing is that when the weather is bad and dirt bags stay, then it’s really fun because then nobody has anything to do. So everybody gets, you know, drunk and, you know, has a party and, you know, crams into a van and watches a movie and, you know, all this kind of stuff. So like there’s very much like, you know, big kids sleep over vibes.
Blake Boles 38:28
Yeah.
Kaya Lindsay 38:30
And so I, yeah, I guess like it’s almost like it was, I was stuffed, I was too full and I wanted to like sit and relax and digest my meal and, you know, be able to look over and, and see a friend there, digesting a meal with me.
Blake Boles 38:47
So paradoxically, the container felt too small. And so you decided to settle and reduce your geographic container pretty radically.But this has opened you up in some way. How long have you been in Moab now?
Kaya Lindsay 39:04
Uh, four and a half years. It’ll be five this November. Yeah.
Blake Boles 39:09
Okay, so equal to the amount of time on the road. Yeah, basically.Yeah. And, and what have you found? Because you’re clearly still, still connected to this world of climbers. Like you still somehow identify with them. It seems like you have a nice symbiotic relationship, like you have this energy exchange. Um, so you’re not completely out of it, but, um, has this experiment in reducing the size of your container been successful? And if so, how do you know?
Kaya Lindsay 39:39
Um, well, I guess I was trying to get my, I was not reducing the size of my container. I was trying to expand the size of my container.It was kind of like, you know, a potted plants cannot grow in a tie in the, the, you know, the, the pot that you get it from the store and you need to repot it into a bigger, into a bigger container. Um, and I think that, I mean, it’s everything that I’ve wanted, right? Like I, I was feeling disconnected. I was feeling purposeless.Um, I knew that climbing was still important to me and I wanted it to be a central focus of my life, but I didn’t know exactly how. Um, but I wanted to have, I wanted to know a place. I think that’s something that climbers, their bags think that they know is they know a place, but I really wanted to like see a place and feel a place and like, you know, the feeling of like, you know, dig my roots in, but like, yeah, like dig my fingers into the soil and just like really get into a place is not something that you can get when you are traveling.
Blake Boles 40:42
You know the people at the post office or?
Kaya Lindsay 40:45
Oh, yeah. I mean, like, yeah, I know the people at the grocery store. And like, when I go on a walk, I almost always see someone that I know.And now that I own the gym, like, you know, the doctors come to my climbing gym. And, you know, like, I really feel like there’s like an I’m I’m creating a net and I’m, you know, sewing more, really belaboring all these freaking metaphors. But, you know, I, you know, like, I feel like I’m tightening this net and adding more strands to it and like creating this beautiful pattern that like feels like I’m connected to it all. And I get it. I know it. And I feel it, which has been so rewarding for me.
Blake Boles 41:25
a social safety net like it’s a group of people who care about you and it could show up at your your door if something was happening or does the metaphor lead you in a different direction
Kaya Lindsay 41:37
Interesting.Um, I guess safety is probably a part of it but it doesn’t I don’t necessarily feel unsafe and maybe that was also part of it that like there’s an element of living with Feeling unsafe that when I was on the road, that was something I always had to kind of deal with you know, and I think I do talk about that in that post about this like Overwhelming feeling of anxiety that I just kind of had all the time And that was part of partially that just like yeah, like I have to be careful about where I park And constant vigilance I think is not great for your nervous system
Blake Boles 42:15
Mm-hmm. What made Moab the perfect place to settle down? Because you’ve identified these other hubs where people congregate like Squamish or Joshua Tree, Bishop. Why did you choose Moab?
Kaya Lindsay 42:32
Um, it was right after, uh, 2020 and I just, you know, gone through a breakup, um, like you do, and, uh, I was searching for a place to be. Uh, I had spent the summer in Vitavu, uh, Wyoming, spending a lot of time climbing out there and the weather was no longer good there. It was too cold.So, you know, I left and I came down to, um, to Moab for the fall, uh, park pulled into a friend’s driveway and was asking him like, I don’t know what I’m doing next. And he was like, why don’t you just move here? And I was like, what? That’s stupid. I wouldn’t want to move to Moab. Um, but he drove me up to the Lasalls and we drove up to the Lasalls.
Blake Boles 43:15
outside of Moab.
Kaya Lindsay 43:17
Yes, the mountains just outside of Moab and the birch trees or the, sorry, the cotton, is it the cottonwood trees? The cottonwood trees up there were, I hate their birch, the birch trees up there were yellow.So yellow, like just like this deep mustard yellow and the mountains like stole my breath away. And I was like, I could live here.
Blake Boles 43:41
Hmm
Kaya Lindsay 43:42
you know, seeing mob from above and with those just like bright yellow leaves and a nice like crisp breeze, even though it was a balmy, you know, 75 down in town. Um, and so it felt right.It felt like it was affordable. Um, it was the right time. It just kind of worked out.
Blake Boles 44:02
Uh, have you reciprocated that favor to anyone else, someone who’s shown up at your door and they’re like, I’m not really sure what I’m doing. You’re like, why don’t you just move here?
Kaya Lindsay 44:11
Um, I have certainly tried. Uh, my friends are less, uh, easily swayed than I, um, I, uh, I, my partner, but the current partner that I am, I’m with, he, he moved here.Uh, he was, you know, living in my driveway and traveling around. Uh, and we kind of decided to start dating and, uh, I was like, well, you, you got, you should move to Moab. He was like, yeah, you’re right. I should, so he got a place here.
Blake Boles 44:44
Hmm. Fantastic. Um, you told me earlier you were living off maybe a thousand bucks a month. Um, but you had a lot of purpose and a lot of, um, time flexibility and freedom.And now you are, uh, you have less time flexibility. You are working something like a nine to five investing in this climbing gym, getting it off the ground. You still don’t have very much money. Um, tell me, tell me how you’re doing on the, on the purpose side.
Kaya Lindsay 45:15
Yeah. Well, I think what we said earlier is that, you know, when I was a dirt bag, I was time rich, but money poor. And now that I own my own business, I am time poor and money poor, you know, which is a difficult trade off to swallow.But I mean, I think that the purpose is there. And like, I get to go to work every day and feel like I’m making a huge impact in people’s lives. And also that I’m building something for myself for the future. And I really don’t feel like a lot of people get to say that, you know, and not just financially, like, like, you know, socially, right? Like you did talk about the social safety net, like, you know, not necessarily, I guess I’m pushing against the term safety, but I do feel like I’m creating a community through this climbing gym that is, you know, every day gets stronger and stronger.
Blake Boles 46:10
Um, yeah, I think community and social safety net are interchangeable in my head.Um, yeah, and it’s not necessarily about, you know, if you run out of money or if you get sick or injured, you know, bring you soup, um, and that’s something that you’ve, you pretty clearly didn’t feel like you were leading yourself toward when you were moving around all the time.
Kaya Lindsay 46:34
I mean, the community in the climbing community is so strong, but it is, it’s conditional. It’s conditional to the weather and it’s conditional to a place like where you are.And so. And your physical.
Blake Boles 46:48
the ability to participate in this activity, yes? Yeah.
Kaya Lindsay 46:51
and your physical ability to participate in this activity. I mean, there are people on the dirt bike circuit who don’t climb very much, who kind of just are there for the hang.But yeah, I mean, I think like the conditionality of the community support for me was just like, I want this, but I want it unconditionally. I want it all year long. I want it, regardless of the weather.
Blake Boles 47:17
Uh, do you have a, a path in your, in your mind for going from a kind of extra bag to a dirt bag, rich to, to having a bit more, uh, of the, uh, in the money side of things and maybe a bit more of, of the time again.
Kaya Lindsay 47:34
Yeah, I mean, you know, Britt and I are working our butts off to get this gym off the ground, but I think we’re both in alignment that like one day we’d like to, you know, work like three days a week and, you know, be able to have someone else work at the front desk. And then, you know, be able to pursue our other passions and stuff outside of that.I think like it’s not just going to happen magically. It’s something we have to like build together, but yeah, I don’t. I mean, that’s just the general path. We don’t know how I’m not sure how I’m going to get from here to there, but that is the direction I’m headed.
Blake Boles 48:15
I have faith. Okay.Um, I have a few more very like niche questions to draw upon your experience before we wrap up. Um, you identified this great question. Like what happens to dirt bags when they get old? And you told me that you do know some older dirt bags who seem to have happy, fulfilling lives. Like who are these people and what are they actually doing? Um, that, that seems like a big unanswered question in this community.
Kaya Lindsay 48:44
Yeah. I mean, I think like, um, the dirt bag that I’m thinking of, uh, I don’t know. Should I say names? Like, I guess I don’t want to like out people, but, uh, Gar is, um, and I’m sure that as soon as I said his name, a bunch of people listening are like, Oh, I know Gar. Uh, I would say that he is like an old, older dirt bag. He’s, he’s not that old. He’s like in his forties. Um, but he works like a rope access job, um, for like a massive construction company. He just worked on the building that dome in Las Vegas, um, that just came up. And, uh, you know, he is, uh, time rich, you know, I don’t know anything about his finances.Um, but he travels around a lot climbing like seasonally as much as he can. He also was one of our outsiders at our climbing gym. Um, and then I guess there’s also Kevin who we call a dirt bag. Kevin, who lives in his, um, it’s not a trailer. It’s like a, it’s like an old RV. And he just spent a bunch of time with my friend Brittany in, in Mexico. Um, so I do see people, you know, Kevin,
Blake Boles 50:01
Kevin.
Kaya Lindsay 50:03
See, you know, see, you know, dirtbag is old, everybody knows because they get around. But yeah, I mean, I think like you can do it.Like it is a thing. It’s just like, I think it takes a certain level of commitment to the sport.
Blake Boles 50:21
Hmm. Okay. Here’s another one for you, Kyle. Uh, you’ve observed that there is more neurodivergence or specifically autism in the climbing community than anyone seems to be openly talking about or doing research on, um, I’m super curious about this observation.And can you just tell me more, certainly no need to name names.
Kaya Lindsay 50:45
Yeah. Um, yeah, I don’t want to name names cause I don’t want to like armchair diagnose people. Um, but I do think that, uh, being neurodivergent and particularly, well, I guess I don’t want to speak to that, but I have observed that professional athletes that I have met, uh, exhibit behaviors that I think most people would acknowledge are a little bit more hyper focused on a thing than the average neurotypical person is capable of. Um, and I think that like that kind of hyper fixation is, you know, potentially born out of, uh, either autism or just a different type of, uh, you know, a non-neurotypical behavior. Um, and I think that like, I mean, I don’t, I don’t mean to pass a judgment either way. I just think that like, if we were able to like, you know, broadly diagnose autism, uh, and you know, Asperger’s and other types of, uh, neurodivergences in this, you know, society, we’d be able to like acknowledge them more casually and in everyday life.But yeah, like I have met a lot of climbers who are like, yeah, I think I might be autistic. Like, I think I might like, this might be true for me. Like these things, uh, you know, don’t come easily. And you know, the thing that I can really get a satisfying conclusion out of is climbing.
Blake Boles 52:19
I’m trying to play with the word dirtbag in this broader sense of anyone who lives with intensity and is largely focused on some sort of outdoor sport in connection to nature. But it could be people who are full-time travelers. Also I know a lot of dancers who are very intensely focused on going from one dance event to another. Depending upon the sport, there’s an over-representation of men and I wonder if, and we’re definitely entering into territory here that’s much broader than the scope of this podcast, but I wonder if this dirtbag lifestyle, which is kind of socially validated from the outside, like you said, you’re doing something super cool.You’re just traveling and being outdoors and using your body all the time. There’s something kind of sexy about it. It’s considered like, okay to be like so monomaniacal about something if you do it this way, if you’re a full-time surfer, if you’re a full-time climber, if you’re just trying to highline everywhere. I just wonder if this has turned into this little corner of the world where largely dudes with autism find each other and find acceptance and their focus is prized. I mostly know the struggles of people in this category in the K-12 school system, but I’m sure in the normal work world, there are similar struggles too. How is this landing with you?
Kaya Lindsay 54:04
I think you’re spot on. I mean, I think like, you know, there is a feeling of in the dirtbag community, like, Oh, we didn’t fit in anywhere else, you know, and now we’re here and we found ourselves and like, I had that feeling too.Um, and I do not fit in.
Blake Boles 54:19
Mm-hmm.
Kaya Lindsay 54:21
Uh, I mean, what did we talk about earlier? I was a theater kid. I mean, I have just always been like expressive and emotional and over the top. And I think that, um, that has always been, you know, it’s not very cool, you know, it’s not very cool to like love show tunes and sing and dance around and, you know, making appropriate jokes in the middle of the classroom.And, you know, just like, you know, I, I was never like, I was never one of the popular kids, you know, and I think that like left me with an emotional feeling of like, Oh, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not cool enough. I’m not good enough. And so like the insecurity I took with me out of, you know, high school into my life was really resolved in the dirtbag community where I was like, these are my people, this is my space. I get this place. I love these people. They love me, you know, I think that’s a very universal theme.
Blake Boles 55:21
people I’ve talked with is like not being popular in high school and not feeling like you can be openly enthusiastic about something that you’re passionate about because being too passionate about something in a genuine way is like deeply uncool in the realm of middle school and high school. At least that’s my experience.Sounds like yours too.
Kaya Lindsay 55:42
Yeah, I mean, that was I was deeply passionate about everything because I was 16, you know, and and that was very uncool. And then, you know, I think I can imagine that if you were autistic or some version of neurodivergent, that you would feel that even more acutely, that you would feel like very un like you never fit in.And then to find a community of people who were also singularly focused on the thing that you are singularly focused on. I can imagine just feels so rewarding and satisfying.
Blake Boles 56:18
Um, so if you throw in some ADHD and the fact that everything’s moving towards knowledge work and you get to go out and use your body and just solve a problem, uh, in this tactiles somatic way, um, yeah, that all adds up. Okay.Um, one more thing for you, Kaya, you are thinking about writing a book to add to the large pile of your media empire. Uh, it’s not enough for you. You would, you’d need more. I need more.
Kaya Lindsay 56:48
I’m so hungry. Yeah, tell me.
Blake Boles 56:51
about the book manuscript that’s been brewing in your head.
Kaya Lindsay 56:56
Yeah, I mean, it’s very new. I was having a conversation with a friend the other day who just finished writing his book. And his book is about, you know, actually, interestingly, what you just said about this, like, physical experience of using your body to solve a problem. And so, like, using your body to experience the landscape, which I just thought was super cool.And he’s like, oh, I have a publisher and I have an editor. And I was like, oh, I want those things. And so we were we were talking and he’s like, well, what do you what’s the book that you can write? Like, what’s the thing that you know that you can write that no one else can write? And I was like, I can write about the female dirtbag experience. And like, it has obviously when we were talking earlier about my one chick travel series, like, it’s I’m so passionate about this idea that just like this female experience and this concept of dirtbag knowledge and climbing knowledge as passing down because climbing is a mentorship sport like it always has been, you know, and so, you know, men in the mountains would mentor each other men in the mountains when it was, you know, was unseemly for a woman to be out there. And so, like, I’m so interested in the women who were able to capture that knowledge and do it for themselves. And I think there’s inherently like a price that women have paid with their bodies in order to access this knowledge and not necessarily.
Blake Boles 58:29
more about that, please.
Kaya Lindsay 58:31
Yeah. Like I don’t mean to say necessarily in a, um, Oh, what’s the word I’m using, uh, like a victimizing way or like, uh, necessarily like a completely oppressive way. But like, you know, I said earlier, women access this knowledge through their boyfriends or men they’re dating, you know, and like, that’s just, that’s the channel from which the information flows is women who have boyfriends or husbands, uh, or who are dating a guy, you know, and then they get that knowledge and the only way that it will pass on to another woman, uh, like without that kind of like sexual component or maybe, you know, but like I, if I get that knowledge and like, I learned how to climb from a guy that I was dating, right? Like I learned how to trad climb from this guy. And like, that was, it wasn’t like a, the transactional experience of like, Oh, we sleep together. You teach me to trad climb. It was more like, Oh, we’re sleeping together and we’re here. Let’s trad climb together. But that was, there was, that was how I got the knowledge, you know, and that’s so, and now I can take that knowledge and give it to other women, sans that experience, you know?And so I’m really interested in this idea of knowledge and like how it trickles down from, um, from men to women, particularly in this area.
Blake Boles 59:53
I think that’s a fascinating topic and you’re going to have a wide audience that’s interested in that. So please write the book.
Kaya Lindsay 01:00:00
I want to. I want to find the oldest female dirtbag. I know she’s out there. I want to know who she is.I don’t think she’s dead yet because I think that like the dirtbag community is not that old. You know, like, like Royal Robins just died. Like his wife is still alive. Like, is it her? You know, like.
Blake Boles 01:00:18
You’re thinking about people who were climbing in the 60s and 70s when they were in their 20s. Thanks for watching!
Kaya Lindsay 01:00:23
Yeah, you’re right. That’s the dirtbag community. There is one woman. She’s somewhere, the original female dirtbag. I want to talk to her more than anything. I want to know who she is.
Blake Boles 01:00:37
That is a great frame for starting the book, like the quest to find the oldest female dirt bag.Kaya, if people want to follow your exploits and see how you run a climbing gym or, or learn about the book that you will eventually write, what’s the best way for them to do that?
Kaya Lindsay 01:00:57
Um, they can find me on Instagram. Uh, one chick travels is still my Instagram handle. Uh, I’m not very active anymore.I’m disillusioned with the, the media machine at this moment, but I’m trying to get back into it. Um, or they can find my, my blog, which is even less trafficked than my Instagram. Uh, which is just one chick travels.com. But, uh, I’m going to try and make an effort to do more writing, uh, this year.So, um, yeah, my website, one chick travels.com or my Instagram once your travels. And if you want to see any of my old YouTube videos, um, of climbing or van building, I think you just have to look up, uh, one chick travels on YouTube and you’ll, you’ll find me.
Blake Boles 01:01:36
Yeah, highly recommend those, uh, those interview series called one chick travels, um, Kaya, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Kaya Lindsay 01:01:44
Yeah, like this was such a great conversation. Thank you, I’m about to go to work and I’m feeling very refreshed and excited about the day.
Blake Boles 01:01:52
Wonderful.