Michael Hughes is a 37-year-old river guide, training director, and year-round rafting company employee who’s built a stable yet unconventional life around whitewater. (@northwest.rafting.company)
His journey started at age 19 on a canoe float down the Rio Grande, where he realized that working on rivers could actually be a job. Michael spent his twenties chasing the guiding season between California and Oregon, stitching together odd jobs to keep returning to the water. He built chicken coops, worked wine harvests, lead students on a gap year program in India and Nepal, and never let a “real job” get in the way of summer river trips.
Now he manages a seasonal crew, runs guide training, and leads a handful of multi-day trips each summer. He lives in a camper during the rafting season in Southern Oregon and then returns north to Hood River, where he and his fiancée recently bought a house in White Salmon (technically, she’s the landlord). His role includes intense bouts of hiring and logistics, but also off-season flexibility: long trail runs on weekdays, powder days in the winter, a rafting trip in Bhutan each fall, and plenty of personal river time for kayaking.
We talk about Michael’s path to financial independence without family help, the tradeoffs of guiding life (like missing most summer weddings), and how he finds meaning in late-night Milky Way sightings, watching kids growing up on trips over the years, and seeing his mom jump into the river for the first time at age 60.
Michael also contributes to Whitewater Guidebook.
Full transcript: dirtbagrich.com/michael
Recorded in July 2025.
Transcript
This is an AI-generated transcript. Typos and mistakes exist!
Blake Boles (00:02)
Michael Hughes, welcome to Dirtbag Rich.
Michael Hughes (00:05)
Hey, thanks. I’m excited to be here.
Blake Boles (00:09)
Tell me about the first time that you fell in love with a river.
Michael Hughes (00:14)
I was probably 20, maybe a little, a little younger, maybe 19, floating down the Rio Grande, just outside of Big Bend National Park. I was on a like six week ⁓ traveling studio in college, I’m a study in landscape architecture. And we were traveling essentially from Winnipeg, Canada down to Monterey, Mexico. And
We were visiting parks, state parks, national parks, monuments, cities, towns, everything kind of in between and like soaking up all things, landscape and architecture. And we’re doing just a canoe trip on the Rio Grande. and the guide was like, yeah, this is what I do for work. I spend a lot of time here on the river taking people on canoe trips. ⁓
And then when it’s slow, there’s like, you know, slow months, I go and travel and have fun and come back and do it all over again. And I remember looking at the canyons and just being like, whoa, this is something you can do. This is something you can do. I kind of had like wanted to spend time in the outdoors and like doing something related to that and with work, but I didn’t really know how or what that could look like. And
That was when I was like, a river, this is it. This could be it. And then after that, I got more into kind of flat water canoeing and kayaking and floating on the really easy rivers ⁓ in central Iowa and really enjoying it and just being like, this is the coolest thing. How do I continue doing this ⁓ as this like love for the rivers continued?
Blake Boles (01:45)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Was the Rio Grande your first longer river trip?
Michael Hughes (02:15)
I wouldn’t say it was the first big river trip because it was just a day trip. ⁓ the first big trip I’m going to say was, ⁓ the green river, ⁓ kind of in Utah. ⁓ and there’s a bunch of different sections, but a lot of people float, ⁓ gray and desolation Canyon. And that was, that was my first, like overnight rafting with some kayaking and like,
Big river trip experience and that was probably like maybe a year after that trip on the Rio Grande ⁓ and I just remember I remember being there and It was one of the pretty early on the trip and they’re like, you’re taking the gear boat today and When you see something you don’t want to hit pull away from it and that was that was like lesson number one on how to row ⁓ and I remember that fondly and
Blake Boles (02:51)
Hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Michael Hughes (03:13)
⁓ Yeah, I think about it often.
Blake Boles (03:16)
Yeah, I got to float the Green River, maybe the same section in Utah some years ago. And it was just so stunning being in that part of Canyon country. It’s so remote. Not a lot of people there. I can imagine very easily wanting to spend much more of my life in places like that. But let’s go back a little bit here. Michael, are you from Iowa?
Michael Hughes (03:42)
Yeah.
I’m from Minnesota, Southeast Minnesota. ⁓ Like Iowa and Wisconsin were like pretty close, like 40 minutes away. So I feel like I was like kind of almost from all three, but definitely not. But I went to school, I went to college, Iowa State University in Iowa. So.
Blake Boles (03:53)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Did you grow up being exposed to the outdoors?
Michael Hughes (04:05)
Only a tiny bit. ⁓ My parents aren’t like super into camping and like doing, you know, like backpacking or hiking really. Every year we’d maybe go camping like once, but it’d be like at like a state park and we’d like stay for one night. And no matter what, it would always just be like the worst storm of the year and we’d be in it. ⁓ And I just remember being like, this is kind of crazy and fun and exciting. But yeah, I mean, like we did some outdoor stuff more like
a little more on like the fishing side. We had like a motorboat and we’d go, you know, water skiing and some of that. So I feel like it’s like outside, but a little different from what I do now.
Blake Boles (04:46)
Yeah. So it was in your college years that you really started to develop this deeper relationship to the outdoors and wilderness and started to think about maybe even working there in some serious way. Yeah.
Michael Hughes (04:58)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think I kind of always at some point in high school, like wanted that, but didn’t know how to like, I didn’t know how to get to it. didn’t know. Like I was like, Oh, backpacking sounds cool, but how do I do it? And I just like kind of had this like romantic view of it in my head of it being just like the most amazing thing and you know, ever, which it can be. Uh, but I didn’t know how to like get it and I didn’t, wasn’t exposed to it until college.
Blake Boles (05:28)
and you went to go study landscape architecture, guess, assuming you would have a normal job in an office.
Michael Hughes (05:35)
⁓ you know, I like, went to college not knowing what I wanted to study. ⁓ I went thinking a little bit more like, was like, I want to be like in the graphic design kind of world, something like that. And when I didn’t get into that program and I got into the landscape architecture program, I knew that there was this like the first semester of the program is this long traveling studio. And I was like, I want to do that.
sure. So I’m going to jump into landscape architecture. And, you know, as I was kind of going through school, like, like, this is pretty cool. I’m learning a little bit about a lot of things. So I’m going to stick with it. In my head, kind of being like, I’m not really sure I’m going to be a landscape architect. But it’s helping open other doors to outside jobs and like, you know, some guiding things and working for the park service and
Blake Boles (06:03)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Michael Hughes (06:32)
just other opportunities that I had never thought of or knew existed.
Blake Boles (06:36)
⁓ So what was your first opportunity to get paid to work on a river?
Michael Hughes (06:43)
It was working in college, working with the outdoor program. It’s probably on like the skunk river. And it was probably taking like a group of like 15 with some other like, ⁓ with some other coworkers taking like a group of 15 down the skunk river for the afternoon. And yeah, just a little day trip and like, was like pretty, pretty simple, pretty straightforward, kind of canoe and or kayak trip. I don’t remember exactly.
Blake Boles (07:04)
Just little day trips.
Michael Hughes (07:13)
what it was, but kind of a classic summer float in Iowa.
Blake Boles (07:21)
What’s the trajectory of a typical, let’s say, river rafting guide? How long do they work? How many seasons do they work? Why do they end up not continuing to come back each summer? of paint a picture for me of the more typical mode of employment in this industry.
Michael Hughes (07:39)
Yeah.
A lot of, I see a lot of college age, you know, they’re, you know, they have a little bit of college left looking for a summer job and people start working. People start working day trips. Um, I mean, there’s lots of hubs of, of day trips around the country and they, you know, they do that. And then maybe they get, like, Oh, I want to do multi-day trips. So they come in, you know, work some multi-day trips.
through college and then like maybe a year or two after college. And so you maybe get like maybe three to five years out of many people. ⁓ And then in my experience, I’ve seen a lot of peers and coworkers and friends like go on to starting their own business, going back to school. Like I have a handful of friends that are getting their PhDs or working towards their PhDs in a different science or something. A good friend of mine just
Graduated law school not too long ago. And so I see a lot of people Come they guide for maybe five years Maybe a little bit more and then go on to kind of the next thing more schooling ⁓ Is what I see
Blake Boles (08:52)
You’re making me think that everyone who’s a river guide is some sort of major intellectual or academic. Are there any just total outdoor bums who maybe don’t even go to college and they’re like, I’m just gonna go work on the rivers.
Michael Hughes (08:57)
It’s funny
for sure.
for sure. There’s tons of tons of those tons of that kind of stereotype out there. ⁓ But in my experience, a lot of people have been to college and have like, explored that a little bit. Some have finished and many haven’t. ⁓ And yeah, I guess they have just speaking from my experience, like a lot of people I work with have have been to college have done that and are
I think that’s maybe what really draws them to guiding, especially a multi-day guidance. Like, sweet, I can just turn that stuff off and I can now like explore something that I maybe wanted to, or it’s like didn’t quite have time for. Now I’m like squeezing this in and getting my, know, scratching that dirt bag itch for a bit. Who knows how long we’ll see how things go and kind of keep going from there.
Blake Boles (09:33)
Hmm
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So you took a different path. You seemed to really enjoy your summer guiding and you made a lot of decisions and maybe some sacrifices to be able to keep doing that. of tell me the story of your twenties.
Michael Hughes (10:13)
Yeah. I went back and forth more or less between Sonoma, California and Grants Pass in Southern Oregon on the road. And in those years, I did a handful of different jobs. Um, and for me, that’s where kind of the dirt bag title kind of comes from. It’s like, I’m working these like kind of odd jobs to support my habit.
of outdoors and fun and adventure, which just all happens to be my job. But so I spent a lot of my 20s kind of moving back and forth and between California and Oregon and working on jobs. ⁓ I worked in a restaurant for a while. I worked on the restaurant’s farm for a bit. ⁓ did, you know, manual landscape labor and I built chicken coops out of reclaimed
redwood boards from fences and decks. And I worked at similar kind of to you more like an unschooling type thing, a gap year program and traveled through India and Nepal. And I worked a few wine harvests where you’re in the cellar, more or less like cleaning all the equipment all the time. It’s not as glamorous as it may sound or as some people think it’s kind of, but it’s super fun. Like you’re there.
Blake Boles (11:36)
Hmm.
Michael Hughes (11:40)
You’re working super hard. You’re working long hours. You’re making pretty good money. And most of the people are there so that they can travel to the next harvest, to the next hemisphere, to another wine region of the world. And so they can travel and see that place and then also work there and experience it. ⁓ so it’s like, I spent a lot of my twenties doing kind of random jobs for six ish months of the year.
so that I could come back to guiding, which gave me that like, I get, I have adventure. have, you know, I get to like be outside and do stuff and like have a job that’s not nine to five in an office or kind of the traditional job. ⁓ which I think from listening to a lot of your, your, your guests and whatnot, it’s a little different where I’m, I’m not working so I can go travel and do and, kind of
Blake Boles (12:25)
Yeah.
Michael Hughes (12:38)
be free and travel around as much because my what draws me to this lifestyle is is the job which is kind of kind of weird to think about.
Blake Boles (12:47)
Yeah. Well, I think there, there are these push and pull factors happening at the same time. And I really relate. ⁓ I did not want to do anything in my twenties that would prevent me from being able to work at summer camps. Like that was so important to me that the work was so rewarding and so much fun and so meaningful that if I took a normal year round job outside of the summer months, which would then, you know,
not allow me to leave for the summer, that felt unacceptable to me. So it sounds like you and I are in a similar, similar raft, so to speak.
Michael Hughes (13:25)
Yeah, very much so. I think I resonate with that strongly.
Blake Boles (13:26)
Yeah.
But seasonal work, you know, that wears people down when you’re using your body all the time, when you’re moving from temporary housing to temporary housing. I think that’s a big reason why, why many people leave that in their twenties. ⁓ in the river industry, ⁓ if people do manage to work year round doing this, what does it look like and how many people actually get to do that? ⁓
In my experience in summer camps and outdoor education, very few people could, were actually able to hold that kind of position. You essentially needed to be the owner or the assistant director.
Michael Hughes (14:08)
Yeah, yeah. I’d say there’s probably few, few guides that guide year round. ⁓ you know, cause it looks like going to the Southern hemisphere to some, there’s, there’s lots of rafting in, in New Zealand and Australia and South America and there’s opportunities, but they’re a little bit tougher to get, ⁓ because there’s a lot of people that live in, those places and in those communities that
do that job as well. And so it’s tricky to to guide you around, but definitely something that’s doable. Something that, at least on like the kind of the staff of guides that I manage that no one does. And I think because like you said, it’s physically demanding. It takes a toll on your body to be rowing a 2000 pound gear boat all day.
every day and then mentally talking to guests and like interacting and taking people on hikes. ⁓ That gets to be a lot. And so I think a lot of people choose to take a break and find some other job or go travel so that when they come back to it, they’re like 100 % ready to dive back into this, you know, physically and mentally demanding work. ⁓ And I think
Blake Boles (15:31)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Michael Hughes (15:35)
year round, like I work year round for a rafting company, but that doesn’t mean I guide year round. ⁓ I spend a lot of time in the office, you know, working on training documents and I do all of our hiring and so I’m interviewing people and you’re kind of trying to piece together a crew for the summer and all sorts of other, you know, kind of admin tasks. ⁓ And so some people are like, you do this year round.
But I’m not on the river all the time.
Blake Boles (16:06)
Hmm. So let’s talk about your office job, Michael, because it’s, it’s not the typical kind of office job. If you were really doing admin nine to five for eight or nine months out of the year, we probably would not be, meeting on this podcast, but you have a very special setup. Tell me about what your, your year round work life is like, and also include the, guiding part.
Michael Hughes (16:12)
Yeah.
Yeah, probably not.
Yeah, yeah. I think I’m just going to in my head, it works easiest to start at the top of the year. January is like super busy office time where I am interviewing lots of people looking for guiding jobs. And I spent a lot of time doing that. Not that we hire a lot of people each year, but we get a lot of applicants. So I’m busy doing that. At the same time, I’m working on some training documents and
getting ready for this season and deciding, you know, what new gear we need to buy and what we need to fix and random projects like that. And then come the spring, you know, as we kind of get into like Marchish, ⁓ we start running, learn to row classes. And it’s mostly kind of middle-aged people looking to get better at rowing because they want to take their family rafting. And so I’m busy now, I’m busy.
supporting that role and just kind of driving shuttles and getting some paperwork ready and where I used to be teaching all of those, ⁓ all kind of all spring. then come mid May, the multi-day rafting season starts. So I move five hours away from my home and live in a camper on a 20 acre property. And we run two trips.
a week, two four day trips a week, kind of all summer through a little bit of September. And I’m here managing, you know, a group of like 12 ish, 10 to 12 ish We are doing some vehicle maintenance and gear repair and driving shuttle and setting up shuttles. And the best part is when I then get to be on the river and go guide trips.
and kind of get back to what got me into this line of work and spend time on the river showing people how awesome rivers are and how awesome being in the outside is. Um, so I get to do that. Maybe I’ll do six or eight trips a summer. Um, you know, kind of a couple of months ish all summer. And then come September things really wind down and I’m busy like closing up our warehouse and
⁓ getting all the gear clean and put away so that when we come back next summer, things are nicely organized. ⁓ and then usually like September and October are like kind of mellow. Maybe take a little bit of time off here and there and not work too hard. I’ll go into the office, you know, maybe for a couple of, I’ll move back north to hood river area. I’ll go into the office, maybe, you know, a couple hours a day, sometimes less. If.
If we get a lot of rain and the rivers are high, like I’m not in the office, I’m out kayaking and enjoying that. and then come, come November, we do a trip in Bhutan, which I’m sure you’re aware Bhutan’s and be kind of sandwiched in between China and India and its neighbors, but they don’t touch with Nepal. and so we go do a cultural sightseeing and rafting trip there. So I’ve been going there every fall for.
Blake Boles (19:37)
Ha!
Michael Hughes (19:59)
a number of years, which is pretty sweet and very special. like pretty lucky to have kind of fallen into going every year because it’s definitely a bucket list trip for many people. ⁓ And for me, it’s just like, yeah, it’s just like where I go in the fall. Like I go see my boot knees, my boot knees friends and you know, hang out and kayak and, and raft and whatnot. ⁓ And then kind of come.
Blake Boles (20:01)
Wow.
Michael Hughes (20:29)
Yeah, we get back from that in December and comes around and I’m back in the office a little bit more, um, kind of nine to five and kind of getting ready for January to hit and kind of start everything all over again. Um, so yeah, like I, I spend a good amount of time in the office, but then in the summer, I spend a good amount of time on the river. spend a good amount of time like outside, um, and like,
Blake Boles (20:41)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Michael Hughes (20:58)
on the river and you know driving shuttle and not having that like ⁓ I work Monday through Friday or like you know five days in a row or even like I work from this time for you from 9 a.m. to 5 a.m. like a lot of days I work in the morning for a couple hours and then it gets really hot outside so I don’t do anything for a while and then in the evening it cools down and I’ll like finish up
you know, some work projects or things, whatever I’m working on that day. So it’s way different than, than a regular kind of my office nine to five.
Blake Boles (21:37)
Yeah, it sounds like you have a lot of variety and a lot of autonomy and maybe about half the year you’re, you’re working, you’re putting in serious hours most days, but the other half give, give or take is actually quite, quite light. ⁓ like a couple hours of true work a day and it’s flexible. You told me before that during the off season, you can take powder days to go skiing. can go on long trail runs. can work on your car. Like it’s super flexible.
but you’re still getting paid a normal salary and you have benefits like a big boy.
Michael Hughes (22:07)
It’s super flexible.
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yep. And I think
I mentioned this earlier, like, was like, I think around when we talked, I like, I was like, Oh, I just finished paying off my student loans kind of thing. like, that was like a real point of like, I’ve made it kind of thing. You know, I’m, I’m a real, a real working adult, yet I have this more like unconventional job and work life kind of thing.
Blake Boles (22:38)
Yeah, and you continue to do seasonal work and you continue to do outdoor work and guiding work in a way that is actually financially sustainable and not just like flatlining, but you told me you were able to buy a house in White Salmon nearby to Hood River, which is a cute little community. I’ve got some friends there.
Michael Hughes (22:56)
Yeah, yeah, it’s definitely inexpensive and like really sought after place to be. But I think a lot of it was kind of luck finding a place, ⁓ finding a place that wasn’t, you know, half a million dollars and able to just like jump on it like pretty quickly ⁓ and make it happen. So it’s pretty sweet. ⁓ Things really lined up.
Blake Boles (23:26)
there’s always luck involved in that, right? The fact that you’re a river guide who’s able to buy a house in a place like that is incredible to me. Yeah.
Michael Hughes (23:27)
Yeah. ⁓
Yeah.
Yeah.
Blake Boles (23:37)
So let’s talk a little bit about the purpose or the meaning that you find in this work. Back when I was working at this wilderness summer camp in California, we would take groups of campers down for day trips on the South Fork of the American River near Sacramento, Coloma. And it was a lot of fun. And I also kind of…
Imagine myself in the role of one of those river guides who was having these meeting this new group and having this fun experience with them, but it’s just for a few hours and maybe they’re doing another group the same day and And it made me I wasn’t quite sure if that’s something I would want to do or how meaningful it would feel to me Because I really liked having two weeks or sometimes four weeks to get to know the kids at a summer camp that
to me was a much deeper and richer experience. What is it like for you? Where do you find the purpose and especially the kind of relationships that come in this field? Where does it come from?
Michael Hughes (24:42)
Yeah, I think I have a similar that similar connection like wanting to connect with people over a longer period of time, not just on a day trip or a half day trip. There’s a lot of guides that start day guiding and, and enjoy it. And then there’s some that are like, Ooh, I want more of that connection and more of that. Maybe they’re looking for a purpose, but like to spend time with people, to get to know people.
on more than an afternoon level and take them into the outdoors. I’ve been fortunate enough to have that experience and feel that drive with people over multiple days in the outdoor setting and see the impact of taking them to the outside is. We take a lot of families rafting and we take a lot of people who never camp.
or never have been camping. People that live in New York City and are like, I don’t even really see the stars ever as they’re looking up and seeing the Milky Way, like striding across the sky. It’s super powerful. ⁓ I’ve been fortunate enough to take a lot of families rafting year after year after year. ⁓ One family in particular who came and like they’ve done a bazillion trips. like I’ve known them for 10 plus years.
and seeing their kids grow up on the river and seeing them go on their own trips and how impactful that is and get in an email being like, hey, Clara gave a bit of the safety talk on our trip and she always mentions the part if you fall out and you’re under the boat, like find your way out, pick one direction and go and like, that’s like super powerful. And this family just like really. ⁓
has played a big impact on me. And sadly, about a year ago, ⁓ they lost their son to suicide. that like, really, it was really hard and impactful for me. But then like seeing that family after and like talking with them about like how the river was like that one thing that really had made a huge difference, ⁓ you know.
in all of their lives and especially in their kids as they grew up. So it’s just like really impactful and powerful to know that I was like able to help show a family the outdoors and like a cool place and the cool hobby and activity ⁓ for so many years. I mean, I still, saw them last summer, you know, briefly, but it’s kind of that that really
gives you a sense of purpose and keeps me kind of in this job knowing that there’s people that want that or really enjoy it. Actually yesterday I was putting a trip on the water and I was like, ⁓ I looked at the roster of names. was like, Teresa, like I did a trip with her a few years ago. And we chatted and reminisced about ⁓ in a Wahee River trip we did probably like five or six years ago.
And even on that trip, like her brother was going through kind of a hard time in life and like, this was just like really transformative for him. And he really, you it was really impactful. And I remember that and I was like, how is your brother? How’s your brother doing? She’s like, ⁓ he still talks about the river trip all the time. Like even my mom who I took on her first trip, like 15 years ago, she still is like, Hey, remember that time I jumped off that rock?
Blake Boles (28:17)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Hughes (28:30)
into the river. And I’m like, yeah, I do because I don’t have a memory of you like going underwater. You know, like as a kid, she’d bring me to the swimming pool and I’d like, she’d stand there and I’d jump and I’d swim to her. You know, a lot she’d, know, but I just didn’t ever remember her like, you know, going underwater. She never jumped in and it went off the diving board or anything. But in that moment, like she was like, Nope, I’m going to jump off this rock into the river. And yeah, like this is like still
Blake Boles (28:30)
⁓
Yeah, yeah, cautious.
Michael Hughes (29:00)
brings it up from time to time and that was 15 years ago. ⁓ Creating those memories is that purpose and that drive for me to keep guiding and to like has really helped and I feel really lucky to have this job because I get to like support that for a lot of other people. ⁓ You know my job now I’m not constantly doing that but I’m supporting that and
having a trip for someone and a guide crew that is passionate and has just like super excited to be there to like help kind of spark that interest and create that memory and lifelong, you know, memory is super impactful and like, you know, it’s really awesome to see.
Blake Boles (29:41)
Yeah.
You’re really helping me understand the difference between day trips and, and multi-night overnight trips in this field. Because what I’m hearing is the, this depth of connection that comes when you’re probably setting up camp and making food together or someone’s like, how do I go poo out here? And you’re like, well, let me show you. ⁓
Michael Hughes (30:04)
it
Blake Boles (30:07)
And also ⁓ just the length of time for the digital detox, the family or the friends having these deep chats without any distraction, getting to see the Milky way. You don’t get to do that during the daytime. ⁓ yeah, that adds up. then the people who come back year after year, or even if they skip a few years, ⁓ yeah, that’s the same for me with, with summer camp. That’s, that’s where a lot of the big kind of emotional payoff.
Am I missing any other important part of what makes this work so amazing for you?
Michael Hughes (30:40)
No, like I think that’s that like really hits it. Why didn’t like ever go to summer camp or like have like that experience, but. From, you know, meeting other people, there’s lots of guides that are like, yeah, I went to summer camp and worked at a summer camp for a little bit and ⁓ like listening to your episode on your podcast, like that’s it. That’s the drive. That’s the like excitement. They’re very similar. ⁓ That’s like the thing that some people just like really.
Blake Boles (31:04)
Yeah.
Michael Hughes (31:09)
really enjoy and really like is that kind of meaningful connection and yeah just like what it’s what drives him is different you know from somebody else.
Blake Boles (31:22)
And there must be some other perks of this job. Like you get to take breaks to go whitewater kayaking. You probably derive a lot of joy from seeing people drop their expensive phones into the river every now and then.
Michael Hughes (31:34)
Yeah, well, you maybe not the, you know, always the best to drop your phone in the river and you’re pretty bummed, but it is like, brings a little like a small amount of joy or like, yep. I’ve seen, I’ve seen a lot of go pros, you know, come off with helmets or, you know, fall out of people’s hands and it’s thinking people like, Oh.
Whoops. It like, yeah, it’s kind of like, you’re like, Oh, yep. Like be in the moment or, know, like maybe now that’s like a slight memory and like, could have potentially, you know, like kind of helped make the rest of the trip more memorable because you weren’t focused on taking all the pictures or, know, you’re just focused on being there. And in that moment, um, I remember a friend who, when I was in this traveling studio for college, who is like,
always just taking pictures, picture, picture, picture. And then he kind of like stopped and he was like, like I need to like remember to like make my own memory of it and just kind of picture it in my head and use my imagination to experience the place instead of just being so focused on ⁓ taking a picture and a video or whatever and putting that kind of electronic piece down and enjoying what’s just in front of you.
Blake Boles (32:45)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Valuable lesson for international travel as you and I both know too. ⁓ what are the other perks for you? I imagine you get to use your body. You got to kind of be outside, you get to stay fit. You get to be jumped into a river all the time. ⁓ what about outside of the work itself? Like, what are you doing with the time flexibility?
Michael Hughes (32:55)
Yeah.
Blake Boles (33:13)
that you have for the other half of the year when you’re not working intensely, how do you fill your time and where else do you find purpose and meaning? Cause you know, so many people are genuinely terrified of having so much time on their hands and are not quite sure what to do with it. How do you spend your time, Michael?
Michael Hughes (33:34)
Yeah, yeah. mean, honestly, I spend a lot of my free time on the river, kayaking, doing that stuff, or even just going pretty much every day, go down to the river in the later part of the afternoon to go for a swim and to exercise my dog a bit and really just cool down. But I mean, I also get to go for a long trail run and like…
not work or like, know, kind of be working in the afternoon on a Tuesday. ⁓ Something like that. I just like later today, I’m going to go for a long run and I don’t necessarily like clock out or like, you know, use that as my PTO or something like that. I just have a lot of autonomy to like do my job and do all the parts of it and then have some free time, you know, in the winter.
Or even in the fall, the rivers are high, there’s a powder day, like, we don’t go to the office. It’s like, oh, hey, I’m going to go skiing for the after, like in the morning. I’ll be around, around noon. And frequently I’m like, hey, I’m not coming in in afternoon. It’s too good out here or something. So that’s like a huge perk to really just like, you know, getting, doing kind of this obscure job and having weird, weird work hours.
but I also then can just kind of go do stuff ⁓ during the day or, maybe it’s harder for me in the summer to be like, I’m going to go take a week and go backpacking. can’t do that. But in the fall I can in the winter I could. And that’s like pretty awesome to just be like, I’m to take some, take some time off and go enjoy, enjoy the outdoors. I spent a lot of time.
Blake Boles (35:16)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Michael Hughes (35:33)
trail running,
a little bit of mountain biking, not much anymore, but, ⁓ and a lot of kayaking. Like I kind of mentioned earlier when we were chatting, I raft for work and I kayak for a hobby. And that’s kind of true. I don’t spend a lot of time rafting outside of work, but that doesn’t mean I don’t super enjoy it and still spend time doing it. It’s still river time.
Blake Boles (35:57)
Mm-hmm.
So this all sounds pretty glorious to me and probably to many people. And I’m curious what the shadow side of this is. What have you had to say no to or perhaps make a significant trade off or a sacrifice in order to achieve this level of freedom and flexibility and spending so much time in the outdoors? In what way do you not?
have it all or not feel capable of having it all, Michael.
Michael Hughes (36:29)
Yeah.
Yeah. mean, like lots of people, think are like, my summer vacation, or I take, you know, trips in the summer. I, you know, have, have that freedom to, you know, go backpacking for a week in the summer and like kind of turn work off. Like I don’t get, I don’t have that. I, my work is in the summer and I kind of, I work towards giving people those vacations. Um, so I sacrifice a lot of.
kind of that summer, you know, summer fun time and summer activity. ⁓ Like I, I’ve missed a lot of my friends’ weddings. I think, you know, there’s a point in a lot of people’s, know, kind of 20s when, everyone’s getting married. And I just didn’t go to a lot of those because I was, you know, working on the river. couldn’t, you know, couldn’t make it, couldn’t make it happen. ⁓ But luckily I’ve like in my kind of job now, I’ve
Blake Boles (37:10)
Hmm.
Michael Hughes (37:28)
been able to have a little bit more of that flexibility. Like my fiance and I just went to Alaska over the weekend. Super quick trip is awesome to go to Alaska, but we were only there for a couple of days. ⁓ and so that’s like less fun and exciting and makes it hard because I know that she would be like, Hey, we should go there for a whole week, if not longer so that we can experience, you know, Alaska and like, go do some fun things. And I was like, like super busy at that time.
Blake Boles (37:39)
Hmm.
Michael Hughes (37:58)
You know, I got 40 people to put on the river the week before and the week after I only have a couple of days. so like seasonal work in this kind of stuff really makes like, you know, whatever season it is, like you can’t do stuff in that season. And it also really makes relationships hard. Um, it, it’s hard to always stay connected and build a strong relationship.
with people when you’re not like, you know, they’re doing the thing or doing stuff with them all the time.
Blake Boles (38:35)
Hmm. Summer quality time becomes more difficult. Yeah. But you’re, you have a fiance. So you’re, you seem to be on that trajectory. You seem to be making it work. Does she also have some strange seasonal work like you?
Michael Hughes (38:45)
Yeah
No, not at all. ⁓ While she does kayak and that’s kind of what brought us to meet and together. ⁓ She works remote. So that really helps. So she can, she can come here and you know, she’s like a couple of weeks ago, she was down here and she was like, probably stay until Wednesday, maybe Friday. Well, I’ll leave at some point. And so she has like some flexibility because of her remote work. ⁓ But at the same time, like
Blake Boles (38:59)
Hmm.
Michael Hughes (39:18)
we don’t get to do a lot of things in the summer because I’m here working. ⁓ And yeah, so that’s hard, but we found a good balance and it’s hard, ⁓ but it’s been, for the most part, working for the last eight years.
Blake Boles (39:38)
And I often feel like I need to ask this question, Michael, have you been able to do all this because you have any sort of like hidden support yourself, whether from a fiance or family or, you know, some sort of fallback plan or are you pretty self sustained economically?
Michael Hughes (39:57)
I am very self sustained economically. There was a point in my twenties, some family things happened and my family was kind like, sorry, we can’t do a ton for you right now financially. I was like, oh, sounds good. Great. So I think that’s like becoming like, you know, financially separate is really driven kind of my, my dirt bag life where I’m like, I have to have a job and for a long time.
I need the income to pay my student loans, to pay rent, to do some of that because I’ve just kind of always had a job. I’ve always kind of been working and having an income. And so yeah, I know one’s supporting me. I have to come clean. I didn’t buy the house. My fiance bought the house. So we joke about her just being my landlord.
Blake Boles (40:55)
Hahaha
Michael Hughes (40:57)
But in that conversation
of buying the house, was like, well, I can put money towards this and it can, you know, and looking at the finances, we’re like, oh, this doesn’t make sense. Now we have some cash on hand. So, but yeah, like I’ve always just pretty much been pretty financially on my own. No one else really supports me. Being in my job, I, you know, I have health benefits. I have a steady income.
So I’ve been able to do a few more kind of things. Vacation was still kind of in my head. It’s like, vacation’s like weird to me that I’m gonna like go on a trip. Because a lot of the trips and travel that I’ve done have all been work centered. So it’s still kind of a new thing to me. But at the same time, I think that helped mold my work ethic. ⁓
Blake Boles (41:37)
Hmm.
Michael Hughes (41:57)
And I’m proud of that, ⁓ I have financial freedom and I have a good paying job and can do a lot of ⁓ fun things.
Blake Boles (42:11)
And as you look down the line, does this feel like a long-term sustainable career path for you? If your body decided to not allow you to guide and kind of forced you into more of an office position, would this still work for you? And if not, where would you pivot?
Michael Hughes (42:31)
Yeah, yeah. And this is something that I think about and kind of look at sort of yearly. Having two kind of separate homes, one in Southern Oregon and, you know, Northern Oregon, Southern Washington, that like kind of migration every year is tough and is at some point will end. I don’t know like when.
or what that looks like. But I think the job that I have and the company that I work for, like I think there’s flexibility in that. The owner, it’s like in the company, Northwest Rafting Company that I work for, like it’s the owner, myself and an office manager. ⁓ And I think he’s flexible and often checks in like, Hey, do still want to go to Grants Pass and manage things on the ground? And I’m like, yeah, I do.
At some point that’s not going to be the case and hopefully we can mold and create a job that still works and gives me those freedoms and those benefits and still the awesome connection that I really enjoy about this job. When that happens, I don’t know. And things like outside, a job outside of rafting, it’s really
strange to think about. I mean, I’ve been doing this. I’ve been doing this for 16 years. It’s like, what else would I do? I know I have like skills and could do something, but you know, Hood River isn’t a big place. There’s not a lot of jobs. And so I think it’s, it’s daunting to be like, well, what could I do? And kind of what is next or what is long term? So Dan, I guess the answer more of your question, like it’s a longer, longer ish term.
Blake Boles (44:01)
huh.
Yeah.
Michael Hughes (44:29)
job that’s hopefully really sustainable for me. But I think there’s so many things that could happen and so many things that could kind of change and fluctuate that there isn’t a solid answer. And I also think that’s too kind of the allure of the job or what kind of is nice is hopefully there’s room for me to shift and grow and change ⁓ as time goes on.
Blake Boles (44:31)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. As we come to a close here, Michael, maybe you can tell me about a moment on the river that happened. Maybe this season, maybe last season that that really stands out to you as one of these moments where like, ⁓ this, this is why I’m doing this. could even be just like a little tiny moment. It doesn’t have to be with, with clients or guests. It could be an internal thing. ⁓ yeah. What stands out to you just immediately.
Michael Hughes (45:24)
Yeah. Every year we do a trip with this organization called American Whitewater. They do a lot of work in like the recreation and conservation side of rivers and land. ⁓ And so we do this trip with them every year. A lot of people that come on the trip are members of American Whitewater and some American Whitewater staff comes and it’s just, it’s just like,
trip that kind of celebrates the work that they do and the efforts that they’ve made to give recreational river releases to help protect lands and all this. And so I’ve been doing this, this was pretty sure this was the 10th year that we’ve done the trip. I’ve been there for nine of them, as has this other lady, Anne, she’s been on nine of them. Usually she rose her own raft. ⁓
And so I like interact with her in, in camp and at lunch and whatnot. And this year she decided it was too hot to be in her own raft. She’s like, I’ve done a lot of rafting trips this year. looks like it’s going to be in the hundreds. I’m just going to ride in a gear boat and we’re like, awesome. That’s great. And, and so I got to spend a day rowing and rowing down the river with Anne in my boat. And that was just like, so fun to be like interacting.
with Anne as she’s in her seventies and has done the rogue a bunch and has spent her, you know, a lot of her life outdoors to just watch her be so excited. Like, look at that bird over there. Look at this. And, you know, take her through a big hole and get super splashed and just have a super fun day on the river with this person I’ve known for a long time, but I get to like connect with them on a different level because they’re riding in the front of my boat.
Blake Boles (47:22)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Michael Hughes (47:24)
And she always says, and I agree with this and have thought about it a lot too. Every time I do a river, like the rogue, especially because I do it all the time. Every time I do it though, I see something new. I experienced something new. And like those are the things that are just like, you know, super special and really impactful.
Blake Boles (47:47)
Fantastic. Michael, thank you so much for coming on Dirtbag Rich.
Michael Hughes (47:52)
Yeah, it was super fun. I’m glad. Thanks for, glad we’ve connected and thanks for having me.