If you’re thinking about college, currently in college, a college graduate, or simply interested in the debate about college happening in this country—this episode is for you.

On episode #14 of the Real Education Podcast I interview my friend William Deresiewicz, who I discovered in 2011 when I read two of his bombshell articles criticizing the Ivy League. I mentioned him in my book Better Than College and mailed him a review copy, which he both enjoyed and criticized. The following summer we met in Portland and had a nice conversation, and then his new book (Excellent Sheep – read my review) came out and thrust him into the limelight. This month I finally had the chance to interview him for the podcast.

Enjoy the episode. It’s really, really great.

-Blake

William Deresiewicz, author of Excellent Sheep and former English professor at Yale University, talks with host Blake Boles about the reaction to his controversial book, helicopter parenting and overindulgent parenting, the meaning of a “real education,” the benefits of a small liberal arts college experience, how someone who doesn’t go to college might replicate the experience (or not), two lesser-known colleges that are on the right track, and why reforming college admissions policies can improve K-12 schooling.